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A "Boeing banana" ?

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oskrypuch View Drop Down
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    Posted: 08 Dec 2012 at 7:50pm
Any chance that in concert with your improved VNav alerting, that you would also include a visual advisory (20 deg arc ahead) to show where (given the current rate of descent) you would cross the next altitude restriction?



This is from a Boeing 787 MFD.

* Orest



Edited by oskrypuch - 28 Feb 2018 at 7:07pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AviJake Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Dec 2012 at 8:23pm
Yes, the initial release of the IFD540 has a range to altitude arc just like you show.
Steve Jacobson
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oskrypuch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Dec 2012 at 10:19pm
Absolutely WONDERFUL!!! Thank you, thank you, thank you.

Now, get those puppies into our hands!

* Orest



Edited by oskrypuch - 08 Dec 2012 at 10:20pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oskrypuch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Dec 2015 at 10:17pm
Well, I know the feature was pulled from the initial releases, a long time ago now. But I do hope it remains in the suggestion database.

* Orest

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote khuffine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Dec 2015 at 6:18pm
At American we called that green arc,"Kermit"...Yes it is desirable and i used it more than any other cool idea!!  Please lets put it on the next go around!! The 777 was a dream to fly with it.

Khuffine
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ddgates Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Dec 2015 at 6:37pm
Orest has been a staunch and consistent advocate for the plantain...

When Jake implements it,and one should not doubt that he will, it will fall to the advocates to educate us aviation mere mortals on its use.

Happy holidays to all.

What great devices we purchased! Thanks, Jake/Avidyne.

David Gates
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote oskrypuch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Dec 2015 at 9:33pm
It allows you to crosscheck at a glance, that you will end up at the correct altitude, in the correct place. Extremely powerful indeed.

Makes CDAP approaches a snap. Helps you organize your descents and ascents, would work wonderfully with the available altitude constraints in the IFD, for each waypoint.

And it would be a first in the GA world in a GPS/COM.

* Orest

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ddgates Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Dec 2015 at 2:52pm
My guess would be that altitude restrictions need to be entered in the flight plan per the FMS?
David Gates
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote oskrypuch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Dec 2015 at 3:46pm
Originally posted by ddgates ddgates wrote:

My guess would be that altitude restrictions need to be entered in the flight plan per the FMS?

It works with the same altitude constraints that you put in manually (or an approach puts in automatically) that generate the VSR and TOD in the IFD now. You can kind of think of the "Banana" as a TOD descent mark in reverse, the "Bottom of descent" point -- it is the place where you will reach the altitude in question, vice the place where you need to descend to get to that altitude.

Simple example: Say you've manually set an altitude constraint of 1000ft above your destination airport, let us say that is 1800ft MSL. As you are flying along at 6000ft, you get to the calculated TOD mark, get the aural descent indication, and so you start your descent. Moments after that you get the 20* green arc appearing on the screen, and as your descent settles in to your planned descent rate, the green arc will be shown right at the airport. Based on your current descent rate that will be the point at which you will descend through 1800ft AGL. If you increase your descent rate, then the green arc will start moving towards your own ship position. If you decrease your descent rate, the green arc will move further away from your own ship, eventually being drawn further away than your arrival airport. Of course this will be affected by the wind backing or shearing, or any airspeed changes, but it allows you to adjust as required. And, in this way you get an immediate visual confirmation of your expected descent progress.

On a non-precision approach, with the target altitude being the MDA, you can just start your descent and adjust so that the green arc is right on the arrival end of the runway, or just short. Before the days of the +V indication in GA and IAN in Boeings, it made a constant descent profile very easy to generate.

Of course, it works just the same in ascent. It really is the best thing since sliced bread.

Now, it works a little differently in the big boys, the Boeing Banana will be generated by the target altitude set in the mode control panel (MCP), rather than the altitude constraints set in the flight plan, which is even more flexible -- but functionally the idea is the same. 

* Orest



Edited by oskrypuch - 25 Dec 2015 at 10:13pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ddgates Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Dec 2015 at 7:13pm
Excellent explanation. Thanks. Sounds like it will be very useful.   Take that G*!
David Gates
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DH82FLYER Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Dec 2015 at 8:39pm
Originally posted by ddgates ddgates wrote:

Excellent explanation. Thanks. Sounds like it will be very useful.   Take that G*!


Garmin already has it on the G500/600. It was a recent addition with their Software 7.0 release, although it's yet to appear on the GTN series.

Edited by DH82FLYER - 25 Dec 2015 at 11:05pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oskrypuch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Dec 2015 at 10:09pm
Originally posted by DH82FLYER DH82FLYER wrote:

Originally posted by ddgates ddgates wrote:

Excellent explanation. Thanks. Sounds like it will be very useful.   Take that G*!


Garmin already has it on the G500/600. It was a recent addition with their Software 7.0 release.

Avidyne has had it in their R9 for a while. But thus far, doesn't exist on a GPS/COM/NAV unit.

* Orest

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ddgates Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Dec 2015 at 10:24pm
RE: G600/500

But is it on their 750/650?

Apples to apples.

Edited by ddgates - 25 Dec 2015 at 10:26pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bad1996 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Dec 2015 at 11:19pm
Sounds like a very useful feature !
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote safari Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Dec 2015 at 10:09am
It seems like it could be very useful for an engine out scenario. It would be great if when you pushed the nearest airport it automatically set it at like 1500 feet above airport elevation. It could eliminate the need for a program like Xavion. Xavion has told me they have no interest in making their program compatible with the 540. 
Dave
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AviJake Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Dec 2015 at 10:14am
No argument.  We have an upcoming release that makes sense for this kind of feature.
Steve Jacobson
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oskrypuch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Dec 2015 at 11:59am
Duplicate.



Edited by oskrypuch - 26 Dec 2015 at 3:02pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote khuffine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Dec 2015 at 7:25pm
I recently wired my alert callouts so I could hear the ,"500 foot" callout. It was great to have that warning and then check a final gear down light. It would be super to have 400,300 ,and 200 all the way down. Most of us are single pilot IFR guys and copilot call outs  is not only a safety issue but also comforting. Avidyne, the pilots friend!!;)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oskrypuch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Dec 2015 at 7:32pm
... also requested APPROACHING MINIMUMS. But, Jake was a little nervous about adding that one.

However, did also request an APPROACHNG FAF, to help trigger a landing checklist. That might have a better chance.

* Orest

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote khuffine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Dec 2015 at 7:35pm
I recently wired my alert callouts so I could hear the ,"500 foot" callout. It was great to have that warning and then check a final gear down light. It would be super to have 400,300 ,and 200 all the way down. Most of us are single pilot IFR guys and copilot call outs  are not only a safety issue but also comforting. Avidyne, the pilots friend!!;)
Khuffine
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote comancheguy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Dec 2015 at 7:58pm
That 500' callout scared HELL out of me, the first few times... 

Ken
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AviJake Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Dec 2015 at 8:11am
You can turn the 500' call off in User Options if you like.

We have recorded the aurals for 400, 300, 200, 100 and minimums.   We haven't turned them on in software yet but the options will likely come along in a not-too-distant (but not 10.2) release.

The principal challenge with Minimums is in a non-baro/pressure alt equipped system, it gets much trickier from a cert sense - that feature is much easier in a PFD type box.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MysticCobra Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jul 2016 at 2:19pm
Good gravy, that's a lot of garbage.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AviJake Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jul 2016 at 8:58pm
Sure was.  I just deleted the entire post.  Paul if you want to try again, it's all yours.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote paulr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jul 2016 at 3:22pm

Sorry about that; sometimes when I paste in links, they get garbled. ANYway, what I posted was a link to the Foreflight 7.7 release announcement, which mentioned the new "descent to destination" feature. It provides advisory VNAV rate of descent based on your GPS position and velocity and your waypoint. It would be a SMOP for them to add a banana to it.

So it's a race! Who's going to get the banana first: us or Foreflight users?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oskrypuch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jul 2016 at 5:38pm
I'm cheering for us. No foreflight on my flightdeck.

* Orest

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BobsV35B Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jul 2016 at 8:29am
Well Orest, does that mean you will never want to have Foreflight in your cockpit or that you just do not happen to use Foreflight at this time?

Happy Skies,

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oskrypuch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jul 2016 at 10:54am
Originally posted by BobsV35B BobsV35B wrote:

Well Orest, does that mean you will never want to have Foreflight in your cockpit or that you just do not happen to use Foreflight at this time?

Foreflight is pricey and a closed shop, which I don't like, and further produces software for iOS only. I am Apple-free, and for much the same reasons.

* Orest



Edited by oskrypuch - 16 Jul 2016 at 10:55am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oskrypuch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jun 2017 at 9:19pm
Avidyne -- any word on the Banana???

* Orest

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AviSimpson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jun 2017 at 9:51am
It came up in conversations the other day...that's all I have at the moment. I can safely tell you it won't be in the minor, read that as 10.2.1, release.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oskrypuch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jun 2017 at 9:56am
Originally posted by AviSimpson AviSimpson wrote:

It came up in conversations the other day...that's all I have at the moment. I can safely tell you it won't be in the minor, read that as 10.2.1, release.

OK, as long as we are still talking about it ...

It has the potential to be a unique, "Gee Whiz" feature in its niche.

* Orest



Edited by oskrypuch - 12 Jun 2017 at 9:57am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chflyer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jun 2017 at 10:19am
It would sure be nice. It's taking a bit longer than initially promised (see 2nd entry in this thread) ;-)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote paulr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jun 2017 at 10:39am
I am picturing a crowd holding up signs. 

WHAT DO WE WANT? BANANA!

WHEN DO WE WANT IT? ONCE THE FEATURE HAS BEEN SPECIFIED, CODED, TESTED, AND APPROVED FOR RELEASE BY THE FAA!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oskrypuch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jun 2017 at 11:05am
LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AviSimpson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jun 2017 at 2:45pm
Originally posted by paulr paulr wrote:

I am picturing a crowd holding up signs. 

WHAT DO WE WANT? BANANA!

WHEN DO WE WANT IT? ONCE THE FEATURE HAS BEEN SPECIFIED, CODED, TESTED, AND APPROVED FOR RELEASE BY THE FAA!
Just keep the noise down. We like to hear the jets flying over the office.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote paulr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jun 2017 at 3:05pm
O! R! E! S-T!
PUT IN THE BANANA BEFORE 10.3!
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The natives are getting restless...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ddgates Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jun 2017 at 3:42pm
Originally posted by pburger pburger wrote:

The natives are getting restless...
Feed them a banana!
David Gates
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oskrypuch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Feb 2018 at 7:35am
The BANANA has arrived!!!

* Orest



Edited by oskrypuch - 26 Feb 2018 at 7:36am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote luchetto Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Feb 2018 at 6:18pm
Will the Banana show on the screen without any key pressing if an approach or a departure has altitude constraints in it?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oskrypuch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Feb 2018 at 6:25pm
Yes, absolutely. See my other post for demo shots. Same as the VSR data block.



http://forums.avidyne.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=1467&title=the-boeing-banana

I'm installed 10.2.1, and have been up in the air. LOVE IT.

* Orest



Edited by oskrypuch - 28 Feb 2018 at 7:14pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MarkZ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Mar 2018 at 8:50am
Shouldn’t the TOD and Boeing Banana lables show up on my Aspen map?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oskrypuch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Mar 2018 at 9:04am
Originally posted by MarkZ MarkZ wrote:

Shouldn’t the TOD and Boeing Banana lables show up on my Aspen map?

Not sure if there are enough data blocks transmitted that the ASPEN can make that calculation/annunciation, but IAC you'd have to get the ASPEN folks to do that. 

It would be nice, but I surely would not hold my breath.

* Orest



Edited by oskrypuch - 01 Mar 2018 at 9:12am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MarkZ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Mar 2018 at 10:39pm
I guess I’m going to have to get up to speed on the IFD 100.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ddgates Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jul 2020 at 7:34am
Originally posted by oskrypuch oskrypuch wrote:

Originally posted by MarkZ MarkZ wrote:

Shouldn’t the TOD and Boeing Banana lables show up on my Aspen map?

Not sure if there are enough data blocks transmitted that the ASPEN can make that calculation/annunciation, but IAC you'd have to get the ASPEN folks to do that. 

It would be nice, but I surely would not hold my breath.

* Orest


The Aspen 1000 MAX PFD does its own Banana driven by the altitude bug.
David Gates
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oskrypuch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jul 2020 at 12:17pm
Yes, ASPEN has added their own internal Boeing Banana, in the MAX.

They also put another twist on it. The angular extent of the banana reduces as you near your altitude target. Not entirely sure I like that modification, but nice to have the altitude bug banana on the ASPEN.

* Orest
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