540 to 550 Upgrade Path |
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AviJake
Admin Group Joined: 26 Mar 2009 Location: Lincoln MA Status: Offline Points: 2815 |
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Posted: 18 May 2016 at 8:06am |
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Sales and Marketing folks are finalizing their program that will be available for anyone interested in upgrading their IFD540 to an IFD550.
I've seen the draft and it looks pretty good.
They expect to publish those plans some time in the week of 23 May. |
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Steve Jacobson
sjacobson@avidyne.com |
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oskrypuch
Senior Member Joined: 09 Nov 2012 Location: CYFD Status: Offline Points: 3062 |
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Thanks for the update.
* Orest |
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pburger
Senior Member Joined: 26 Dec 2013 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 406 |
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Steve,
What can we expect as far as installation requirements for swapping a 540 with a 550? I assume it's a plug-n-play for the box itself, but are there external sensors that need to be installed? Edited by pburger - 18 May 2016 at 9:28am |
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TomG
Newbie Joined: 26 Dec 2014 Location: Wilmington, NC Status: Offline Points: 32 |
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This could be good! Thanks look forward to next week!
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Tom G
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TomG
Newbie Joined: 26 Dec 2014 Location: Wilmington, NC Status: Offline Points: 32 |
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Any news?
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Tom G
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TurboPA30
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Tomorrow is the last working day of the "week of 23".... just sayin'
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AviSimpson
Senior Member Joined: 31 Mar 2015 Location: Lincoln, MA Status: Offline Points: 765 |
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We are working on the final touches of the program. We should have the approval shortly.
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Simpson Bennett
Avidyne Corporation Product Manager |
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AviSimpson
Senior Member Joined: 31 Mar 2015 Location: Lincoln, MA Status: Offline Points: 765 |
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Here are the details for the 550 upgrade program
which we will be rolling out this week: For current IFD540 owners IFD550 Early Purchase For more information contact sales at 800-284-3963 or sales(at)avidyne.com Edited by AviSimpson - 31 May 2016 at 3:02pm |
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Simpson Bennett
Avidyne Corporation Product Manager |
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ddgates
Senior Member Joined: 12 Aug 2011 Location: Deer Valley Status: Offline Points: 1100 |
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A posted and clear video of the EGOCENTRIC SV for a 550 would be very useful.
Thanks. |
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David Gates
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LANCE
Senior Member Joined: 06 Dec 2014 Location: TEXAS Status: Offline Points: 277 |
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I know this is a foolish question to ask . . but here goes . . . any rough idea of when the IFD550 will be certified?
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AviJake
Admin Group Joined: 26 Mar 2009 Location: Lincoln MA Status: Offline Points: 2815 |
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Yes, as soon as the FAA signs off on the STC.
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Steve Jacobson
sjacobson@avidyne.com |
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vuk3@me.com
Newbie Joined: 16 Dec 2013 Location: Me Status: Offline Points: 28 |
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Hi guys, A few questions from me: Is there any further wiring to be done to the existing IFD540 tray installation to make the IFD550 work? Will the IFD550 require factory installed hardware modifications after I install it? I assume the upgrade will be like for like... If I have the 16W Comms in my IFD540 then I'll have the same in the 550 right? I'm located in Australia, will you guys consider sending the IFD550 to my avionics shop before I send back my IFD540 to minimise downtime. And do you expect the FAA STC to be completed in weeks, months or years? I'd like to know how long I have to pledge my donation for an upgrade.
Cheers Andy Edited by vuk3@me.com - 31 May 2016 at 6:30pm |
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VH-UAR YMMB
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LANCE
Senior Member Joined: 06 Dec 2014 Location: TEXAS Status: Offline Points: 277 |
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This is not a complete certification but just an STC on the Attitude Reference System? Presumably a few weeks to a few months?
Edited by LANCE - 31 May 2016 at 6:20pm |
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TurboPA30
Senior Member Joined: 18 Sep 2010 Location: 27XS Status: Offline Points: 138 |
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Aside of being a fancy display, what is the STC going to bring? Like, can it be used as a standby A.I. for a glass panel?
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AviJake
Admin Group Joined: 26 Mar 2009 Location: Lincoln MA Status: Offline Points: 2815 |
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The upgrade from a 540 to a 550 can be 100% plug and play.
There are asterisks associated with that statement. For example, did you have heading input to the 540? If yes, then you will get the TVV part of the 550 to show up. If not, then either you don't get the TVV, or you must add a heading source input to the 540. But, there technically is no need to add any more wiring. The 550 will not require any additional hardware mods that exist at this time. If you have a 16W 540, then you would get a 16W 550 if you took advantage of the upgrade program that Simpson published. I won't comment on the logistics of shipping boxes all around the world. It will be so situationally dependent on the individual install - you will need to coordinate with your Avi Sales rep and/or your shop. As for how long do we need to keep your pledge money - I won't answer it. Every time I've tried in the past, things have gummed up those estimates and we felt the furor of customers who did not enjoy that uncertainty or unrealized expectations. So for now, "it will be done when it's done."
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Steve Jacobson
sjacobson@avidyne.com |
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AviJake
Admin Group Joined: 26 Mar 2009 Location: Lincoln MA Status: Offline Points: 2815 |
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For at least the initial cert, the IFD550 will be a "supplemental, non-required" additional source of attitude. That means, whatever attitude indicators your airplane currently requires is unchanged. You can not use the IFD550 to serve as one of your required attitude sources. Architecturally, nothing automatically prevents the device from being used as a standby or even primary but that is not the cert we are seeking at this time.
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Steve Jacobson
sjacobson@avidyne.com |
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hamilton
Newbie Joined: 23 Jul 2014 Location: New Zealand Status: Offline Points: 28 |
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Seeings you have pricing in this thread, would you have any idea on list price for an IFD545?
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LANCE
Senior Member Joined: 06 Dec 2014 Location: TEXAS Status: Offline Points: 277 |
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This was in the e-mail that came out on April 1, 2016: Edited by LANCE - 31 May 2016 at 7:03pm |
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comancheguy
Senior Member Joined: 24 Aug 2011 Location: Maryland Status: Offline Points: 160 |
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What would the install consist of, from an IFD-540 to 550?
Ken
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tony
Senior Member Joined: 06 Dec 2011 Location: Atlanta Status: Offline Points: 466 |
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So I'm trying to understand this statement. Currently in my 540 installation, I have no inertial input. I display track and not heading. Do I have to add an inertial to upgrade from a 540 -> 550? or will the internal AHRS in the 550 be sufficient for the SV to work, given that I will not use this as a primary or backup source. Promise...... I just want to slide the 540 out and slide the 550 to get SV. Edited by tony - 01 Jun 2016 at 8:13am |
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AviSimpson
Senior Member Joined: 31 Mar 2015 Location: Lincoln, MA Status: Offline Points: 765 |
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Here's a start... |
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Simpson Bennett
Avidyne Corporation Product Manager |
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comancheguy
Senior Member Joined: 24 Aug 2011 Location: Maryland Status: Offline Points: 160 |
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Thanks for the info, guys! So, Will 10.2 be available before the IFD-550? I would like to see how the in trial works in my 540s with 10.2. Ken |
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MysticCobra
Senior Member Joined: 29 Jan 2013 Status: Offline Points: 671 |
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From a 3rd-party site:
Edited by MysticCobra - 01 Jun 2016 at 11:59am |
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AviSimpson
Senior Member Joined: 31 Mar 2015 Location: Lincoln, MA Status: Offline Points: 765 |
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The green circle Edited by AviSimpson - 01 Jun 2016 at 12:14pm |
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Simpson Bennett
Avidyne Corporation Product Manager |
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comancheguy
Senior Member Joined: 24 Aug 2011 Location: Maryland Status: Offline Points: 160 |
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Gotcha! Thanks!
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George
Groupie Joined: 08 Apr 2014 Location: 66Y Status: Offline Points: 82 |
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Where and when on the early application form.
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AviJake
Admin Group Joined: 26 Mar 2009 Location: Lincoln MA Status: Offline Points: 2815 |
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You can do the slide in option. You do NOT need an inertial input - the 550 internal ARS (attitude reference system) provides that. If you do not have heading input then you do not get the TVV (total velocity vector) symbol. That's all you miss with no heading.
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Steve Jacobson
sjacobson@avidyne.com |
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AviJake
Admin Group Joined: 26 Mar 2009 Location: Lincoln MA Status: Offline Points: 2815 |
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I'm a TVV junkie. I don't care where my aircraft is heading, I only care where it is going. The TVV shows that.
But, I have a 3000+ hour HUD TVV bias here. For those who have not seen a TVV in operation, you will be able to continue to fly safely in blissful ignorance (not a bad thing at all). Clearly, you can fly an aircraft safely without the benefit of a TVV. Until, at least you see, and become, a TVV junkie and then you'll never be able to shake the addiction/habit.
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Steve Jacobson
sjacobson@avidyne.com |
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oskrypuch
Senior Member Joined: 09 Nov 2012 Location: CYFD Status: Offline Points: 3062 |
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A FPV (flight path vector) or TVV is an incredibly powerful tool.
* Orest |
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Slatye
Newbie Joined: 31 Jan 2016 Status: Offline Points: 5 |
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Could I ask what's happening to the traded-in IFD540s? Will Avidyne just rebuild them as IFD550s? Or will they be re-sold as "certified refurbished" IFD540s?
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AviJake
Admin Group Joined: 26 Mar 2009 Location: Lincoln MA Status: Offline Points: 2815 |
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Resold as certified refurbished.
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Steve Jacobson
sjacobson@avidyne.com |
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BobsV35B
Senior Member Joined: 24 Aug 2011 Location: Downers Grove, Status: Offline Points: 131 |
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Is there any video that shows the TVV in action?
Happy Skies, Old Bob
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Old Bob, Ancient Aviator
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AviJake
Admin Group Joined: 26 Mar 2009 Location: Lincoln MA Status: Offline Points: 2815 |
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Yes there is. Simpson just put it together in the last few days and should post it or a path to it when he returns to the office/on-line.
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Steve Jacobson
sjacobson@avidyne.com |
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TomG
Newbie Joined: 26 Dec 2014 Location: Wilmington, NC Status: Offline Points: 32 |
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Can you illuminate some of it's uses? |
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Tom G
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M20Kid
Groupie Joined: 19 Aug 2015 Location: AZ Status: Offline Points: 79 |
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I have flown a number of airplanes with the TVV installed and the only time it's made one dot of difference to me was when I was getting a type rating and had to fly steep turns. Keep the TVV on the horizon and you would not climb or descend. I have not had it tied to synthetic vision, though, so there may be some additional benefit (like seeing the runway on an ILS in a crosswind?). If most of your flying is cross country you will get some interesting, but mostly useless, information from the TVV. Just my 2 cents.
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oskrypuch
Senior Member Joined: 09 Nov 2012 Location: CYFD Status: Offline Points: 3062 |
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Put the circle on where you want to go, and the plane goes there. You can fill in any number of tasks there, whether level at cruise, or maneuvering.
Together with the SV provided actual horizon, and the pitch attitude, the TVV (FPV) will by difference show you your Angle of Attack, right on the PFD, or in this case the 550. * Orest |
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ddgates
Senior Member Joined: 12 Aug 2011 Location: Deer Valley Status: Offline Points: 1100 |
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Respectfully. I don't think that is correct, Orest. That's why I installed an AOA indicator. Avidyne, a built in AOA, like Aspen has done for their PFD and MFD, though derived, could be a useful add on for the 550. Just saying... David
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David Gates
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ronl
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David I agree with you. What it will be displaying is you pitch angle relative to the horizon in straight and level flight. It will not show your angle-of-attack.
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Ron L
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oskrypuch
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Ha! I have you gentlemen.
Although the AOA is not shown discretely, the AOA is easily discerned as the angular difference between the pitch attitude and the FPV (TVV). That is really the definition of AOA. I use this all the time (with my ASPEN) to keep a constant AOA in a long climb. * Orest Edited by oskrypuch - 04 Jun 2016 at 6:01pm |
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oskrypuch
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A drawing makes it more obvious.
The 74 is shown in a climb here, the pitch attitude is Theta, the FPV is V-infinity. The AOA (alpha) is just pitch - FPV, which is pretty easy to read off the PFD. For example, if your pitch in the climb was 15*, and the FPV shows as 11*, then your AOA is 4* (EDIT). * Orest Edited by oskrypuch - 04 Jun 2016 at 8:23pm |
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n7ifr
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Orest,
Fascinating... OK I am trying to follow your logic - I assume you meant 15-11 = 4 deg, not 3 for AOA in your example. So, next flight, I will observe the FPV (TVV) on my Aspen PFD with SV and hold a constant AOA delta ("Pitch - FPV") in the climb. Wonder how holding a constant AOA in the climb will compare to holding a constant IAS, like Vy speed (which admittedly will decrease slightly with altitude). Tom Wolf
Edited by n7ifr - 04 Jun 2016 at 7:29pm |
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oskrypuch
Senior Member Joined: 09 Nov 2012 Location: CYFD Status: Offline Points: 3062 |
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Yes, typo, should be 4*.
After second segment climb, when you transition to cruise climb, note your displayed AOA. Maintain it, and you will maintain the same performance profile all the way up. Your Vy will decrease 7 to 8 knts to the mid-teens. You can do the math, or just follow your PFD (or IFD). You can maintain Vy, Vy + 20, or whatever, using this AOA aid. * Orest Edited by oskrypuch - 04 Jun 2016 at 9:28pm |
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ddgates
Senior Member Joined: 12 Aug 2011 Location: Deer Valley Status: Offline Points: 1100 |
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If those assertions are true, why do airliners have AOA vanes? If it is a simple subtraction between fight path and pitch, doesn't make sense.
The definition of AOA is delta between wing incidence and relative wind. The two may be close in normal flight regime, but not sure they are identical. EDIT: Does the aspen depict FPM numerically? If true, though, Avidyne can have its own AOA just with what is present. Is that how Aspen did their (derived) AOA? Edited by ddgates - 04 Jun 2016 at 8:42pm |
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David Gates
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ronl
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OK, now I can see that AOA can in fact be calculated from the TVV vs pitch. Thanks for the clear explanation O. I learned something today! :-)
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Ron L
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oskrypuch
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It is just a bit of math. An AOA vane measures the AOA (relative wind) directly, and more accurately. Obviously preferable. Although the data is used internally, ironically, it is only a minority of civilian transport aircraft that show raw AOA. No, ASPEN does not break out the AOA into a numeric value. But, I suspect that is exactly what they are using, in deriving their AOA values, with some smoothing added, and displayed relative to a reference point established with the fairly extensive flight testing required as part of the install. If I was going to install a stand alone AOA system, I'd get the Safe Flight system. * Orest Edited by oskrypuch - 04 Jun 2016 at 9:30pm |
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n7ifr
Senior Member Joined: 05 Aug 2013 Location: Scottsdale, Az Status: Offline Points: 470 |
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It is just a bit of math. An AOA vane measures the AOA (relative wind) directly, and more accurately. Obviously preferable. Although the data is used internally, ironically, it is only a minority of civilian transport aircraft that show raw AOA. No, ASPEN does not break out the AOA into a numeric value. But, I suspect that is exactly what they are using, in deriving their AOA values, with some smoothing added, and displayed relative to a reference point established with the fairly extensive flight testing required as part of the install. If I was going to install a stand alone AOA system, I'd get the Safe Flight system. * Orest Well, the Aspen AOA must have more... shows AOA in unusual attitudes like steep banks also, which must be beyond just the TVV. I will pay much more attention to the TVV practicing my Commercial Maneuvers... Great forum - Thanks Orest. I always learn new stuff here. Tom Wolf |
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ddgates
Senior Member Joined: 12 Aug 2011 Location: Deer Valley Status: Offline Points: 1100 |
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The point of all of the standalone AOA devices is not to derive a number as discussed here, it is to determine the critical alpha for a given wing set, then alert the pilot when that alpha is approached.
I suppose you could take your 47 in level flight and calculate an alpha value for a near stall and use that number as a guide. In the case of my AlphaSystems device it calculates differential pressures on a pressure vane and compares the current value of differential pressure to that identified as critical alpha. I agree with Tom, always learning which is good. Best to all. David
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David Gates
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oskrypuch
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My pleasure. It is an unhappy day for me, when one goes by and I don't learn something. * Orest Edited by oskrypuch - 04 Jun 2016 at 10:53pm |
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195pilot
Newbie Joined: 11 May 2016 Location: KDPA -IL Status: Offline Points: 17 |
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A couple of weeks ago, I ordered my IFD540 and APX340 plus the MLB100 and the installation will take place in a few weeks. I think that the IFD540 is (more than) adequate for my current needs, but I don't want to be stuck with yesterday's sweetheart when it comes to future added features and improvements. That places me pretty much on the fence regarding Avidyne's prepaid upgrade offer and searching for input from others who are more experienced than I am. As is the case for most, budget is a consideration but I certainly don't want regret a decision to not upgrade under the current offer.
The 540 is a huge step up from my current Collins Microline with a IIMorrow GX-55 with GPSS. I've spent quite a bit of armchair time with my iPad and Avidyne's free simulator and feel at least moderately grounded in its use and can easily envision using the new stuff in my plane. I also saw the very helplful matrix above that details the major differences between the 540 and 550 including ARS. However the topic is new enough to me that I may not yet fully appreciate what the differences mean to me. My plane currently has a S-TEC Series 30 autopilot with altitude hold and GPSS. I understand that the 540 will play nicely with it. I'm considering an autopilot upgrade at some time in the future once the bank account has had a chance to recharge. Maybe to a S-TEC 55 or equivalent to get the benefits of coupled approaches, preset altitudes and so forth. Does the IFD550's ARS give more meaningful inputs to the S-TEC 55 or is there no advantage there? My Cessna 195 benefits from "help" in the area of pitch control as well as roll control. It's not particularly stable in either, although the current autopilot has taken care of both for cruise flight. I'm anticipating that preset altitudes, ILS/VNAV tracking and other similar modes would be pretty coarse without attitude based inputs, but I've heard that the 550 may not be the solution for that? Edited by 195pilot - 11 Jun 2016 at 11:29pm |
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ddgates
Senior Member Joined: 12 Aug 2011 Location: Deer Valley Status: Offline Points: 1100 |
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With current history, performance, and bandwidth, I would NOT buy a 550 anticipating the 550 to do anything more than drive the 550; i.e., not serve as AHRS for an autopilot. I suppose Avidyne could do that, maybe are even planning to do that (I doubt it), but within any reasonable timeline? They don't have the bandwidth to complete current <<overdue>> projects. With the draconian cert which would be required on top of that? Nooooooo sir. With the modifications coming to the "newer and friendlier" FAA, more likely you in the future might buy one of the whiz bang APs which are either in or coming to the EXP world. That likely would have its own AHRS. (and would cost you maybe a LOT less). It is just my opinion, mind you, but my suggestion based on the appearance of the avionics world, keep the 540, keep the STEC 30 (don't buy the 55x), and wait and see what comes onto the market in the next 2-3 years. You'll love what you already have, and you will have a $$ war chest for when the next generation of new goodies hit the market. Edited by ddgates - 11 Jun 2016 at 1:11pm |
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David Gates
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