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Foreflight 10 external device support |
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pilotken 
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 Topic: Foreflight 10 external device supportPosted: 10 Apr 2018 at 10:23pm |
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So looks like Foreflight support for external ADS-B input should be possible with this release? Assuming of course the IFD sends the GDL messages to the correct UDP port...
https://www.foreflight.com/connect/spec/ The Stratux guys have already incorporated the custom AHRS messages into their codeline so obviously had a few days to work with pre-release software Full blurb is here: https://foreflight.com/campaigns/10/ Edited by pilotken - 11 Apr 2018 at 2:15am |
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paulr
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Posted: 11 Apr 2018 at 2:50pm |
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I was wondering this as well. I didn't think that the IFD used the GDL90 format, but I would love to be wrong about that so I can finally get IFD traffic/wx on my damn iPad.
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HenryM
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Posted: 11 Apr 2018 at 4:49pm |
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The IFD does use GDL90 format according to Avidyne tech support. I hope I can get traffic and weather from my SkyTrax100 once ForeFlight 10 is available.
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arkvet
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Posted: 11 Apr 2018 at 8:50pm |
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This would be great. Right now I'm having to continue to use the Stratus 2 for my foreflight... and by doing so I lose my flight plan transfer to/from foreflight. Can't connect foreflight to stratus and IFD at same time. Well at least by default.
I'd love to turn the Stratus 2 off and just have it as a backup only. |
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Brent
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HenryM
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Posted: 11 Apr 2018 at 9:15pm |
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Actually, you should be able to connect to both Stratus and the IFD, from what I've been reading here. The trick is to set the IFD in remote WiFi mode and have it use the Stratus network. Your iPad would also connect to the Stratus network and then your IFD and Foreflight can communicate with each other. ForeFlight would then get traffic and weather from Stratus and would still transfer flight plans to and from the IFD.
One thing I wish is that there was a dual-band ADS-B solution from Avidyne. I have a SkyTrax100 that is UAT-only. I get traffic but only from planes with UAT transponders or towers broadcasting the information. Last week for some reason I was not getting traffic from a friend flying nearby with a GTX345 transponder. I don't know if the ground stations had an issue, but in any case it appears I wasn't getting the rebroadcast signal. Firing up Stratux allowed me to see the other traffic directly through its transponder signal. I also flew to Mexico and it would have been nice to see any 1090MHz ES transponders. I don't trust Stratux enough to hang my IFD onto its network (don't even know if it is possible), but I sure would like dual-band reception. If I had a Stratus 2S, I might not turn it off.
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oskrypuch
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Posted: 11 Apr 2018 at 9:15pm |
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Can't remember, are you having specific troubles with that? Connecting to both (Stratus <-> IFD + tablet) with remote mode on the IFD is a supported setup with 10.2.1, and I have done just that. Actually, it got it working with 10.2.0, most of the time. * Orest Edited by oskrypuch - 11 Apr 2018 at 9:15pm |
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Heno
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Posted: 20 Apr 2018 at 1:26pm |
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You can always have the Stratux connect to your IFD's network. Only thing is you have to manually tell the Stratux which ip's to broadcast traffic and weather to. |
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HenryM
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Posted: 20 Apr 2018 at 2:03pm |
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Do you have any details on how to tell Stratux what to do?
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Heno
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Posted: 20 Apr 2018 at 2:22pm |
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I prepared this a while ago. The default password for a Stratux is raspberry The hardest part might be figuring out what address the Stratux gets assigned by the IFD. You always have the option of statically assigning it an ip that is in the IFD's network range, might be a good idea to do that with your Tablet as well so that things don't change between flights. |
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paulr
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Posted: 24 Apr 2018 at 7:16am |
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ForeFlight released v10 yesterday-- but my plane's in for annual. Maximum sadface.
Anyone flown with it yet?
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HenryM
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Posted: 24 Apr 2018 at 7:56am |
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If you attach a Stratux to the IFD network, and also have a SkyTrax100/MLB100 installed, does the duplicate traffic and weather information interfere with each other on ForeFlight? I assume the IFD only displays the SkyTrax information.
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Heno
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Posted: 24 Apr 2018 at 10:58am |
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Bench tested it. Way better than the Dangerzone Stratus 2 emulation we were using before. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P9K0wZowFB8 I was going to test it at sun n fun but the Stratux that I grabbed and put the experimental firmware in had no AHRS module. I had taken it out the week before to do some antenna testing and forgot to put it back in. |
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arkvet
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Posted: 25 Apr 2018 at 9:08am |
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I did not know that was a change with the update. I will need to dig into the manual to see how that's done. So you're saying the Ipad (foreflight) can connect to both the Stratus and IFD at same time? I knew there was a configuration where the Stratus could function as the "wifi server" to both the Tablet and the IFD but I just didn't want to got that route to have any strong reliance on the portable Stratus. |
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Brent
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HenryM
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Posted: 25 Apr 2018 at 3:41pm |
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I guess the trick would be to figure out how to connect the Stratus to the IFD network, rather than setting the IFD to Remote WiFi. I don't have a Stratus, so I don't know if this is possible.
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AviSteve
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Posted: 25 Apr 2018 at 4:19pm |
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I'm not aware of any way to do that since the iPad has only one WiFi radio. You can connect Foreflight (i.e. iPad) to the IFD directly (local WiFi mode) or through the Stratus (Remote WiFi mode). Regardless of which way you do it, you can transfer flight plans between Foreflight and IFD, but those are the only two usable configurations I'm aware of.
I'm not aware of any way to do that with a Stratus.
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Steve Lindsley
Avidyne Engineering |
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paulr
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Posted: 01 May 2018 at 5:17pm |
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just flew HSV-CHA. With 10.2 on the IFD and FF 10, I had a good connection and got GPS position but did not get traffic in FF as expected. Opened tickets with both vendors to see what’s what.
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Rangemaster_Tango
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Posted: 02 May 2018 at 9:50am |
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I flew with Foreflight 10 and IFD550 SW version 10.2 and no traffic / weather displayed in Foreflight. GPS position only as in the past.
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paulr
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Posted: 02 May 2018 at 9:51am |
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And a big "fu" from FF support:
ForeFlight Mobile doesn't currently support receiving ADS-B traffic from Avidyne ADS-B receivers (or through the IFD540 WiFi connection), but that's something we're hoping to add in the future. I'm looking forward to seeing the response from Avi support so I can finally get an answer about whether the IFD is emitting GDL90 or not. I've heard both that it is and that it isn't. It is irritating me that I can get better compatibility with a Stratux (a direct competitor to a big chunk of FF's revenue) than with my IFD. |
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n7ifr
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Posted: 02 May 2018 at 10:15am |
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If I understand the thread dilemma, with the Stratus WiFi talking with our IFD's, is it that FF does not display the SkyTrax Traffic on FF?
I have been routing my IFD540 WiFi as "Remote" using the Stratus box, allowing flight-plan transfers to/from FF and IFD. Traffic displayed on IFD is Skytrax and Traffic on FF/iPad is from the Stratus directly. So until FF receives our Skytrax UAT traffic directly from the 540-WiFi, the work around is to have the two separate sources of traffic displayed. Incidentally, for all of you FlyQ SA users, our IFD540 Skytrax UAT traffic (and Wx) does currently integrate quite well with the iPad SA FlyQ App and does display Skytrax derived ADSB on the iPad App... just saying. Tom W.
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paulr
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Posted: 02 May 2018 at 10:33am |
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Thanks, Tom-- there are 2 issues commingled in this thread. One is getting the IFD and Stratus to coexist with an iPad so that they all play together nicely. I'm not trying to do that; I get Stratus traffic on FF and Skytrax traffic on the IFD and am OK with that for the time being. Hats off to the brave folks who are battling this-- it sounds like there have been lots of false starts and dead ends along the way.
The other issue is getting IFD traffic on FF. I know it works with FlyQ (and a few other apps), and I like FlyQ just fine, but it doesn't replace FF's capabilities for me so it's not a solution. I can deal with the aggravation of having to keep my Stratus on the glare shield or the aggravation of having to use FlyQ instead of FF :)
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HenryM
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Posted: 02 May 2018 at 12:05pm |
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FF has a development center nearby. It appears Avidyne is slightly different than other providers despite the claim of using Capstone (GDL-90) format. This was before FF 10 came out. I'm disappointed FF10 didn't fix whatever the underlying issue is. They (FF) are aware of the problem and it is on their list to implement whatever special processing Avidyne needs. However, I don't know if there is a schedule for it.
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pilotken
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Posted: 02 May 2018 at 5:50pm |
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Yea I can confirm that Foreflight still needs some work. Flying around today had good success with Aerovie receiving traffic and FIS from the Skytrax 100 via Wifi from the IFD540. But not Foreflight.
Going one step farther I grabbed a couple wireshark packet traces and the IFD isn't sending to UDP port 4000 which the open protocol spec shows. Probably no surprise, but the open spec does allow vendors to supply data without waiting for Foreflight development. In this case the plugin needs to be finished by Foreflight. Several other vendors have implemented the protocol. Aerovie is nice, but not a full replacement to Foreflight yet. Oh well.. Running a Stratus(x) on longer trips is fine with me for now to have a backup. But it would be nice to have one solution. whine whine whine Ken
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HenryM
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Posted: 02 May 2018 at 6:37pm |
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What I would really like is to be able to use the IFD-540 in local WiFi mode and have a Stratus or Stratux connect to the IFD network. I may or may not have a portable device with me, and rather than be changing the access point to be the portable device, I'd like the portable device to connect to the existing network. Then I could get data to ForeFlight either from the IFD or the portable device without having to be changing settings in the IFD. I have a TSO'd, robust device in my panel. It should more reliable than the portable device. It is always in the plane.
I know this isn't an Avidyne issue. I've forwarded a suggestion to Appareo. If others do the same, maybe they'll listen. Maybe Avidyne has some pull there too.
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Kentucky Captain
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Posted: 06 May 2018 at 11:30pm |
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I complained to Appareo over a year ago about FF not being able to be a client. I felt the same as others here. Why would I want my mult-thousand dollar, TSO'd, certified, in-panel device to be a network client of a device held in my airplane by velcro.
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Woo Hoo!!!
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teeth6
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Posted: 13 May 2018 at 12:01pm |
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I normally fly with the IFD as the server and just switch back and forth between the IFD 100 and Foreflight as needed. With the latest release of FF, I now get this message every time I switch to FF if I have not closed out of the IFD 100. It does not seem to impact FF in anyway so once I hit "OK", FF still seems to operate normally.
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oskrypuch
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Posted: 13 May 2018 at 3:51pm |
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I've noticed the same thing, on both counts.
* Orest |
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Kentucky Captain
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Posted: 13 May 2018 at 10:44pm |
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I can't read the message as it is too small and I can't zoom on it either. What does it say? |
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Woo Hoo!!!
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oskrypuch
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Posted: 13 May 2018 at 11:42pm |
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To paraphrase, it says that some functions in FF may be compromised if you are also running an IFD100 on the same device.
It may just be a CYA, don't know. Haven't seen anything amiss. iOS is not really multitasking, so not sure what the issue might be.
* Orest |
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HenryM
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Posted: 30 May 2018 at 6:06pm |
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When I run both the IFD-100 and ForeFlight, I lose the ability to transfer flight plans from ForeFlight to the IFD. I can still download the IFD flight plan to ForeFlight, but can’t go in the other direction. So there’s at least one limitation. Who knows what else might be compromised. The IFD-100 seems to work, though.
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teeth6
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Posted: 30 May 2018 at 6:11pm |
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Thanks Henry. I rarely send flight plans in that direction so I never noticed that.
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AviSteve
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Posted: 30 May 2018 at 10:16pm |
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What's your setup? Single IFD in the panel using local Wifi, one iPad running IFD100, another iPad running ForeFlight? I'm not sure why that wouldn't work, but if that's your setup, I'll try it in the lab tomorrow.
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Steve Lindsley
Avidyne Engineering |
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HenryM
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Posted: 30 May 2018 at 10:20pm |
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I didn’t try two iPads. When I noticed the limitation, I was running both the IFD-100 and ForeFlight on a single iPad. That is when the message shown above shows up.
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AviSteve
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Posted: 30 May 2018 at 10:34pm |
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OK that makes sense. At this point, ForeFlight and IFD100 don't share iPad sockets well. You can make it work by only using one app at a time on the same iPad, but that means you have to close one every time you want to use the other. I realize that's inconvenient, though. It's definitely a known problem. I don't remember whether the fix is on our side, ForeFlight side, or both. I'll check with the IFD100 guy tomorrow and see if I can get an ETA.
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Steve Lindsley
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HenryM
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Posted: 30 May 2018 at 10:44pm |
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ForeFlight seems to work, other than the flight plan transfer.
Of more interest to me would be getting traffic and weather from the SkyTrax100 to display on ForeFlight. Avidyne says the data is being transmitted and it is up to FF to display it, but ForeFlight says it isn’t quite the right format so they will need to do something special for Avidyne. I don’t think the latest GDL-90 support in ForeFlight fixes the issue, thought they do work much better with Stratux devices. It would be nice if Avidyne and ForeFlight could sit together and fix the problem. Right now, there seems to be a little bit of finger pointing going on on both sides.
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paulr
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Posted: 02 Jun 2018 at 2:43am |
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Earlier in the thread, pilotken mentioned that he'd done some network traffic analysis. Apparently the IFD isn't sending using the protocol/port combination that FF expects. That will have to be resolved, likely by Avi, before we can see whether the format expected by FF and the one emitted by Avi are "close enough". AviSteve hasn't said whether this is a work item for the 10.3 release or not, but I devoutly hope so.
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AviSteve
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Posted: 03 Jun 2018 at 8:50pm |
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This may be interpreted as more finger pointing, but we're not actively working anything in this regard because the IFD is just forwarding the ADS-B data that is received. I'll circle back with the ForeFlight folks and see what they think the problem is.
Edited by AviSteve - 03 Jun 2018 at 10:02pm |
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Steve Lindsley
Avidyne Engineering |
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pilotken
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Posted: 03 Jun 2018 at 9:59pm |
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I certainly wouldn’t point the finger. I only made the observations the published open api foreflight now has isn’t being used by Avidyne. Stratux took advantage of it since they were piggy backing on what you could see from a Stratus unit and now have something better that could be used without foreflight support. I expected foreflight uses the Avidyne sdk which appears to work for others.
Avisteve it would be great to if a fix is coming, thanks for checking. Btw a couple years ago Avidyne announced sdk’s including tier 1 support for free to support read only access. After searching around I’ve never seen where the free sdk or even docs would be available. It would be really easy to create a stratux gateway with this info. Yea not upload but might be a cute feature. So how do I get the tier 1 sdk mentioned in https://www.avidyne.com/news/press.asp?release=320 Or did marketing get ahead of themselves? It’s happened to me too!
Edited by pilotken - 03 Jun 2018 at 10:05pm |
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paulr
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Posted: 04 Jun 2018 at 1:14am |
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I filed a ticket with Avi support on this on 5/1 and never got a response; I should have followed up on it.
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AviSteve
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Posted: 04 Jun 2018 at 5:00pm |
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The SDK is available for the asking (and the signing of an obligatory usage agreement). At this point, there is even a Tier 2 which allows read/write of flight plans and user waypoints. I'll send you details.
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Steve Lindsley
Avidyne Engineering |
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HenryM
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Posted: 04 Jun 2018 at 5:10pm |
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About a year ago there was an Avidyne press release about ForeFlight support for wireless connectivity to the Avidyne IFDD5xx/4xx: https://www.avidyne.com/news/press.asp?release=349
I assume this means ForeFlight is indeed using the SDK and there is some relationship between ForeFlight and Avidyne. Hopefully the issue that prevents weather and traffic from being displayed can be resolved quickly, preferably with a ForeFlight update, since that happens more easily than an IFD software release. I really like both companies. I hope to see them working together more.
Edited by HenryM - 04 Jun 2018 at 6:32pm |
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paulr
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Posted: 05 Jun 2018 at 3:21am |
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Yes! What HenryM said. I hope my earlier comments didn't come off as griping; I know that the Avi engineering team has a ton of pressing things to work on and I appreciate Steve and the rest of the team's quick action on past issues.
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Heno
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Posted: 07 Jun 2018 at 2:19pm |
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The now obsolete "dangerzone" patch uses GDL90 for ADS-B data and emulated Stratus 2 data for AHRS. If Avidyne want's to send ADS-B data to the vast majority of EFB's they should use GDL90 as it is the most widely supported protocol.
Edited by Heno - 07 Jun 2018 at 2:20pm |
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HenryM
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Posted: 07 Jun 2018 at 4:24pm |
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What I was told by Avidyne is the they do use GDL-90. ForeFlight claims it being used in a way peculiar to Avidyne. I don't know the exact details, though. It seems they are pretty close, but someone has to do a few modifications and neither side appears to be actively working on it. IT is a shame that it appears to be just a matter of selecting the right ports to send the data to.
Any word from your ForeFlight contacts, AviSteve?
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AviSteve
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Posted: 08 Jun 2018 at 9:48am |
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I've contacted them and they just have a lot on their plate. We're going to help them complete their test environment and then we'll support them whenever they can start that testing.
The IFDs simply take ADS-B data from the receiving device and put it on the WiFi port unaltered. There's nothing peculiar to Avidyne in that data stream. If the receiver outputs GDL-90 (a.k.a. Capstone), that's what will come out of the IFD. And, all of the receivers I can think of output GDL-90.
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Steve Lindsley
Avidyne Engineering |
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HenryM
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Posted: 08 Jun 2018 at 2:26pm |
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It seems that the issue is more with moving the data over the right ports, than with the format of the data. It sounds like the solution is almost there, if the right parties would just have the time to spend on the last details. I hope it happens soon.
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paulr
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Posted: 08 Jun 2018 at 5:10pm |
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Thanks for the update, Steve. That's what is so odd about this. I have a SkyTrax 100, which I presume is outputting native GDL90. You say the IFD just sends on what it gets from the receiver, which seems reasonable. And FF is clearly able to get GPS position data-- that must be sent on a separate stream or port, since it works but the ADS-B doesn't.
Hopefully this will get fixed soon. I appreciate your team helping the FF team get their environment set up properly so they can get to it. FF users, if you want to see this functionality, it might help to politely send a note to support@foreflight.com to let them know.
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dmtidler
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Posted: 08 Jun 2018 at 7:36pm |
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Steve, I would love to see you reach out to SA too. Their latest FlyQ efb release handles almost everything through the IFD and Skytrax100 (GPS position, FIS, TIS and FP transfers from FlyQ efb to the IFD). The only piece currently missing is FP transfers from the IFD to FlyQ efb.
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arkvet wrote: