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ADS-B Options for IFD-540 |
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comancheguy 
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 Topic: ADS-B Options for IFD-540Posted: 25 Sep 2018 at 11:47am |
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At Oshkosh this year, Avidyne folks mantra was: "Just buy the L3 Lynx, because we are having issues displaying traffic correctly on the 540s from the Garmin GTX-345."
My avionics shop is telling me, that he is not aware, traffic works fine from the 345, on the IFD-540. With two IFD-540s, I don't really NEED another screen in my panel (lynx). Anyone know what the deal, really is? Ken |
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rolfe_tessem
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Posted: 25 Sep 2018 at 5:49pm |
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I thought the "approved" ADSB in solution was now the FreeFlight RANGR...
I also thought the whole point was to display traffic and weather on the IFD display. If I wanted it on another display, I would just stick with my iPad mini for a fraction of the price...
https://www.rangravionics.com/product/fdl-978-rx/ Rolfe |
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Catani
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Posted: 25 Sep 2018 at 6:19pm |
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It's your shop that is giving conflicting info. They should agree to install the 345, and then remove it and refund all your money, if their promises prove to be wrong. If they won't agree to do that then they are not so sure after all, and what Avidyne said is probably more accurate. So press the test button with your shop and see what results you get.
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AZ Flyer
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Posted: 25 Sep 2018 at 6:25pm |
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I understand that the Lynx will display traffic and weather on the IFD540 if the two are properly connected. The Lynx in my plane is not connected to the IFD540, and I'm debating whether to even make the connection because I can see the traffic and weather just fine on the iPad (Foreflight) and the IFD screen is less cluttered. The advantage of the Lynx is that it is dual band in for traffic. And, it can be upgraded to TAWS and active traffic if desired.
Edited by AZ Flyer - 25 Sep 2018 at 6:28pm |
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LANCE
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Posted: 25 Sep 2018 at 8:55pm |
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The Garmin GTX345 works great for traffic and weather on the IFD.
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n7ifr
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Posted: 26 Sep 2018 at 12:51am |
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Lance -
So now we hear that the Lynx will not display UAT target icons on our IFD540's, only "Legacy" Diamond icons. What is your experience with the GTX345 displaying its Composite trafic on the IFD540's? IOW, 1. if you have a TAS6XX feeding your GTX and the 345 outputs a composite ADSB + TAS to the IFD540, does the GTX345 display UAT icons with Speed vectors on the ADSB-traffic icon, and diamonds on the TAS targets, or are the target icons all "diamonds" which is the Legacy icon display... 2. Even if you do not have a TAS unit feeding into your GTX345, but just with your GTX345 Dual ADSB-In, what does your IFD540 display show - Diamonds, or UAT icons? Thanks for your experience. Tom W.
Edited by n7ifr - 26 Sep 2018 at 12:55am |
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Catani
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Posted: 26 Sep 2018 at 10:11am |
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I haven't heard that, on this forum at least. I have a Lynx connected to an IFD, and reported in another thread that if you have not updated your IFD software and are still using an ARINC 429 connection between the Lynx and the IFD, only basic traffic icons will appear. If your IFD software is up to date and the Lynx/IFD connection is over RS serial, the IFD should display ADS-B traffic icons. And ADS-B weather as well. Has anyone reported differently?
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Melohn
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Posted: 26 Sep 2018 at 7:54pm |
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The release notes for the EX5000 MFD software R8.2 say that it will only display “legacy” style traffic icons when connected to an ADS-B In device, either Avidyne or other. It would be interesting if this was a limitation of the 429 connection, which is what Avidyne recommends for ADS-B traffic, or of the MFD software.
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AzAv8r
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Posted: 26 Sep 2018 at 10:00pm |
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In the "Connecting an NGT9000" thread early Apr 2017, there are pictures showing ADS-B symbology (traffic and weather) on an IFD440. The traffic *must* be delivered via RS232 to get the ADS-B darts. I'm almost certain no *approved* display device will display "ADS-B" symbology when the traffic is received via ARINC 429, because of how the TSOs were written.
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Catani
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Posted: 26 Sep 2018 at 11:37pm |
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No, elsewhere Avidyne reps have posted to this forum that it is a limitation of the MFD box itself. Something about not meeting TSO requirements, with the result that the EX5000 MFDs will never display ADS-B traffic icons from any box, or over any port. Fortunately, the IFDs are a more modern design and do not have that limitation.
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doog
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Posted: 06 Oct 2018 at 11:45pm |
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I have the 345, no issues.
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DavidBunin
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Posted: 09 Oct 2018 at 4:07pm |
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What do your traffic icons look like on the IFD? Are they diamonds or triangles? Does your IFD display the ADS-B weather radar image?
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GBSoren71965
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Posted: 10 Oct 2018 at 5:49pm |
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I have an IFD440 and a Garmin GTX345. Traffic is displayed on the 440 and IFD100 as diamonds. Weather is not displayed on the 440 or 100 because I have not had the dedicated wire ran from the 345 to the 440, I may have it done in the future but not currently a priority.
I do get ADS-b weather and triangles traffic on Garmin Pilot. I'd also say I get fewer "false traffic" readings on Garmin Pilot.
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LANCE
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Posted: 10 Oct 2018 at 8:17pm |
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I have a GTX345 and an IFD550 and it shows traffic trend and yes the IFD shows ads-b nexrad.
 Edited by LANCE - 10 Oct 2018 at 8:25pm |
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comancheguy
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Posted: 11 Oct 2018 at 10:43am |
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Well.... that IS interesting.... Avidyne sales is telling me that Garmin isn't playing nicely and this doesn't work.
Ken |
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LANCE
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Posted: 11 Oct 2018 at 11:05am |
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I also have it displayed on my Aspen MFD1000, so not sure if it goes from the GTX-345 to the Aspen first or the IFD first or maybe it's wired parallel.
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comancheguy
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Posted: 11 Oct 2018 at 2:30pm |
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Oh, so If I buy the "Aspen converter" it'll work? :) Just kidding.
Just trying to figure out what to buy for ADS-B. Having two airplanes to equip makes this painful. Ken |
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AzAv8r
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Posted: 11 Oct 2018 at 9:47pm |
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I don't think the Aspen has the ability to receive ADS-B and then re-transmit it, so I'd say it is received directly. With respect to the symbology, I think it really comes down to the physical interface. Send ADS-B across Arinc 429: TIS symbology only (the diamonds), and no WX. This is almost certainly true for ANY certificated product, and not limited to Avidyne. Send ADS-B across RS-232 or RS-422, get ADS-B symbology for Traffic (lawn-darts/Asteroids spaceships), and have weather available. The original Lynx NGT incompatibility was due to the data rate L3 used for RS-422 (115kbaud, which is the maximum RS-232 rate). This incompatibility has been resolved (Avidyne with 10.2.1 supports that high rate). If an ADS-B receiver uses (a) RS-232 or RS-422 to deliver an ADS-B data stream, (b) "Capstone" protocol (defined by Garmin), and (c) a data rate compatible with an IFD setting, it should work and produce the desired results. I would not expect Avidyne to claim compatibility with Garmin, beyond the features Garmin offered at the time the IFD was announced (2011). Garmin is notorious for introducing proprietary features especially after a product introduction, which is one reason I will never again buy a Garmin product.
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Melohn
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Posted: 12 Oct 2018 at 10:28pm |
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This makes logical sense, but in the cases where a Garmin 345 is sending ADS-B traffic and weather to an Avidyne MFD, the instructions from Avidyne have traffic without vectors being displayed via 429, and weather via 422. If the 422 connection provides both weather and full ADS-B symbology, why can’t the MFD get that information from 422? I suspect there is some TSO stuff that makes this non available; I know the EX5000 has the ability to display traffic vectors from TIS transponder feeds, which I thought came via ARINC 429.. |
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n7ifr
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Posted: 05 Nov 2018 at 10:33pm |
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FYI -
With my TAS-"A" upgrade working, I have the TAS-A box displaying on dual Aspens via ARNC429, and displaying on dual 540's on RS232. . The TAS-A: TAS & 1090-IN ADS-B still display as "Legacy" symbology without any triangles or speed vectors. So, I then re-set my transponder to 987 = On (1090 = Off) to optimize Rebroadcast range (40+ miles) and display: . IFD540's (Skytrax100 987-In) via RS232 displays full UAT symbology (ADS-B and ADS-R) . Aspens (TAS-"A" 1090-In plus TAS via ARNC429 Legacy symbology. . iPad FlyQ displays UAT traffic symbology from dual 540's via WiFi With the reported UAT Symbology I suspect the GTX345 display on Avidyne 540/550 is the 987-In ADS-B & ADS-R, and not the 1090-In Legacy targets, which would be "diamonds". . Check your GTX345 Settings for 987/1090 =On or Off or both = On Tom W.
Edited by n7ifr - 06 Nov 2018 at 11:24am |
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n7ifr
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Posted: 01 Oct 2020 at 5:29pm |
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LANCE -
Just revisiting this older thread... Now that my aging MLB100 (aka Skytrax100/NavWorx) is going belly up, I am considering going with the GTX345 to integrate: 1. dual IFD540's 2. TAS605-A 3. Aspen MAX2000 Are you still happy with your GTX-345 displaying both traffic types (UAT & Active) on both your IFD's and Aspens? Any install hiccups to think about? Thanks. Tom W. |
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oskrypuch
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Posted: 01 Oct 2020 at 9:52pm |
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Unless there is some compelling reason to get a Garmin unit (other equipment etc.), I would definitely go with the Lynx. Believe it is even a bit cheaper. And the headless remote Lynx can be controlled with the IFD on its screen. I may have to go with a remote Lynx install, if diversity ADS-B output is forced on us Canadians. Then I'd have a perfectly operating AXP-322 for sale. (very frustrating) * Orest
Edited by oskrypuch - 01 Oct 2020 at 9:54pm |
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n7ifr
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Posted: 01 Oct 2020 at 10:57pm |
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Orest -
If I didn't already have the Avidyne TAS-A 605, agree the Lynx solution makes more sense too. However, with TAS-A already in place, GTX345 allows integration of TAS with its internal ADSB receiver with output as combined... Tom W.
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oskrypuch
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Posted: 01 Oct 2020 at 11:21pm |
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I have the TAS 605A myself, and it provides me combined 1090 (direct & ADS-R) plus the active traffic. If I got the Lynx, I would only use the FIS-B out. * Orest
Edited by oskrypuch - 01 Oct 2020 at 11:22pm |
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n7ifr
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Posted: 01 Oct 2020 at 11:36pm |
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Orest -
So, if you got the Lynx, and you only used it for FIS-B out, it would seem you would lose the ability of display integration of both traffic types... . In other words, how would you display the TAS and 1090 traffic? . Would you sacrifice the UAT traffic display? . What would you port to your IFD's? As an after thought, if you consider the Lynx only for the FIS-B, why not just install the Avidyne Skytrax100-B (FreeFlight Ranger) ADSB-In? Tom W. Edited by n7ifr - 01 Oct 2020 at 11:38pm |
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chflyer
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Posted: 02 Oct 2020 at 9:03am |
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Orest, I think a certified version of the uavionix tailBeaconX should be available (later this year?) before diversity is required in Canada. Besides the AV-20 and AV-30 controls heads, it also can be controlled from the GRT and MGL EFIS units via RS232 serial output. If we could convince Avidyne to add the same, it would be a no brainer for you and should be operationally transparent to what you have now.
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Vince
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oskrypuch
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Posted: 02 Oct 2020 at 1:12pm |
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The reason for installing the Lynx would be to provide ADS-B diversity OUT, two antennas, one on top for the Aieron satellite system, and the standard belly antenna, as may become required in Canada. The AXP-322 is not diversity capable. Currently I have blended 1090 ADS-B IN (direct & ADS-R) + pinged Active Traffic from my TAS605A routed to display on my IFD and ASPEN display, so all of the traffic, all of the time. The AXP-322 provides 1090 ADS-B OUT, single belly antenna only. If I were to replace the AXP-322 with a Lynx 9000, the Lynx would: (1) take over 1090 ADS-B OUT, via belly antenna, but ADD top antenna (diversity) output for the satellites (2) ADD UAT FIS-B, so weather display on the IFD and the ASPEN. (the TIS-B traffic output from the Lynx would be ignored, not needed) Currently I have weather on board from Sirius XM to my Garmin 796, and I would keep that. US UAT weather is of little value in Canada. Make sense? * Orest
Edited by oskrypuch - 02 Oct 2020 at 1:15pm |
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oskrypuch
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Posted: 02 Oct 2020 at 1:22pm |
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The TBX is a great potential unit. it isn't true diversity ADS-B, but a single antenna aimed up & down. Don't know if TC will approve it, but they may. The confounder on the TBX for me is that I require a strobe on the tail, because my wing tip strobes are enclosed and forward. So if I went with the TBX, I would throwaway a high quality LED strobe/position light on the tail, and have to rework my wing tips, perhaps with new fairings. That could be expensive, paperwork, etc. The Lynx would ADD FIS-B to my panel, something the TBX obviously would not. So, I need to compare the cost of the TBX + wing rework, no new features vs Lynx/AXP322 swap out and install, which will add panel ADS-B weather iN. * Orest
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n7ifr
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Posted: 02 Oct 2020 at 5:46pm |
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Yes, makes sense.
Appreciate knowing your setup and requirements in Canada. Tom W.
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chflyer
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Posted: 02 Oct 2020 at 6:41pm |
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Yes, the devil is always in the details.
The strobe in the tail position light does seem to be missing from the TBX... might be worthwhile querying them on your situation. They are a very dynamic, agile, and responsive company and that might be relatively easy to add. On the other hand, uavionix literature and/or press releases have indicated they have been working with navcanada to ensure the TBX meets Canadian performance requirements, as well as advertising TBX application internationally with diversity. |
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Vince
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SeanMollet
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Posted: 04 Oct 2020 at 5:30pm |
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I have an IFD540 and GTX-345, works like a charm.
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skitheo
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Posted: 04 Oct 2020 at 8:40pm |
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The remote NGT-9000 is quite a compelling value proposition. I've had the NGT-9000 + IFD540 combo for 4.5yrs. Integration has only improved. What's the compelling value of a GTX-345 with an IFD?
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Catani
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Posted: 05 Oct 2020 at 10:06am |
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I've had the NGT-9000+ panel mount for 5 years now. The TAS antenna on top that it uses for active traffic can be used as the top ADS-B 1090 diversity antenna as well, according to the latest Aviation Consumer. I don't fly to Canada, but if I did, I'd sure ask my local avionics shop to confirm. For those with a 9000+, all you'd need to do to get diversity is pay a software unlock fee of less than $1K. The diversity hardware and software is already built into the box. No installation costs or downtime.
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n7ifr
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Posted: 11 Oct 2020 at 6:30pm |
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Lance -
Great to see the GTX345 playing with IFD's: How well does the GTX integrate its FIS-B (Wx) out to play with IFD textual Metars on Info pages? Thanks. Tom W.
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n7ifr
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Posted: 11 Oct 2020 at 6:36pm |
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Anybody on the forum use the ADSB (FIS-B and TIS-B) on ASPEN MFD-UNLOCK
. Skytrax100-B or . FreeFlight Rangr?
How is the Aspen display of Metars and Traffic on Aspen MFD? Maybe you have some display photos... Thanks. Tom W. |
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skitheo
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Posted: 11 Oct 2020 at 8:37pm |
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I use the FIS-B and TIS-B on the Aspen MFD. It's coming from the NGT-9000, however. Not sure that it makes any difference if it's a certified source with high-speed RS-232 connection. TIS-B ID/tail number is disabled by default, so I re-enable it when I want to see tail numbers. Here's a quick visual from 2 May 2020 over the middle of Utah. You can see the NEXRAD and TIS-B.  |
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n7ifr
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Posted: 12 Oct 2020 at 10:11pm |
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Thanks for the response & photo of MFD - very nice. Two questions: 1. How do you enable or disable the Tail Numbers? 2. Do the Metars from your Lynx also populate the 540 or 440 Info Pages? Thanks. Tom W.
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skitheo
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Posted: 13 Oct 2020 at 8:51pm |
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1. Aspen MFD Hot Key on Navigation Map display, Menu 3 is labeled "ID". Pressing that button will toggle ID on or off. See section 5.1 of Aspen MFD Pilot's Guide. 2. I haven't tried looking at METARs using the Info tab on the FMS subsystem. I'll have to try that this weekend. On my 540, I use the touch screen on the Map subsystem MAP tab to select the airport and scroll through to the METARS. Gives me all of the data. Can do the same with the NGT-9000 screen. EDIT: I get the use case to use the Info tab. Can arbitrarily enter an airport ID w/o scrolling the map all over to find it.
Edited by skitheo - 13 Oct 2020 at 8:53pm |
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n7ifr
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Posted: 13 Oct 2020 at 11:03pm |
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Thanks Skitheo -
I found the info in the MFD MAX manual... I don't yet have the Aspen unlock, but looking forward to adding this. "On my 540, I use the touch screen on the Map subsystem MAP tab to select the airport and scroll through to the METARS. Gives me all of the data." Not sure where you mean on the Map Subsystem MAP tab ? to select the airport... Assuming the NGT Lynx populates the 540, easiest way is from MAP page, tap 1. the Direct-To tab which brings you to the FPL page in one button push. 2. Highlight the Airport you want to check for Metars: 3. Then tap "Info" tab and the Apt of interest is automatically in the "Paste" key position. 4. Tap "Paste" and go to Wx for Metars. Tom W.
Edited by n7ifr - 13 Oct 2020 at 11:11pm |
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skitheo
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Posted: 13 Oct 2020 at 11:30pm |
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Thank you for that new path I hadn't considered! "...pictures worth 1000 words..." From the simulator (which doesn't have METARS in my version), if a METAR is available it will be on page 2 of the overlaid info window which comes up when you tap on an airport on the map.
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skitheo
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Posted: 13 Nov 2020 at 11:51am |
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On my list for a long time was to get an image posted of METAR display on the Aspen MFD.  Edited by skitheo - 13 Nov 2020 at 11:52am |
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GBSoren71965
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Posted: 15 Nov 2020 at 8:19am |
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Update for you. I replied to this thread a couple of years ago, but since have had some additional panel work done.
Now I can say that the IFD and the GTX345 all work together nicely. I get ADS-b traffic and weather on my IFD440 and IFD100. Radar, text metars and traffic all display. I've even let my subscription to Garmin Pilot go, FlyQ is getting all that data thru my IFD. I'd kept Garmin pilot mainly because it connected directly to the GTX345 for traffic and weather. If I had it all to do over I think I would have opted for the Lynx, but now that everything is working as it should I'm very happy with my setup. |
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n7ifr
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Posted: 16 Nov 2020 at 2:43pm |
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Thanks skitheo -
I finally just got my upgraded Skytrax100B and Aspen unlocks (PFD & MFD). Love the Aspen MFD UAT Traffic display with Tail # ID and adjustable speed vectors, and learning the different ways on the Aspen MFD to access the TFR's and Metars via Apt Info and via Wx... Very cool - maybe more convenient (primary view) than going to the IFD for same. Still display 1090 traffic on IFD#1 from TAS-A. Tom W.
Edited by n7ifr - 16 Nov 2020 at 2:48pm |
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comancheguy wrote: