IFD Software Release 10.2.0.0 |
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MarkZ
Senior Member Joined: 05 Sep 2015 Location: 0TX0 Status: Offline Points: 172 |
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My bet is that it is NOT Avidyne.
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oskrypuch
Senior Member Joined: 09 Nov 2012 Location: CYFD Status: Offline Points: 3058 |
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Avidyne got heavily lambasted, admittedly by a small minority of folks, regarding previous informative posts about product release progress, when dates slipped. That is all par for the course and understandable, but I can fully understand them being shy about doing the same now.
* Orest |
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Paul
Senior Member Joined: 17 Aug 2012 Location: Massachusetts Status: Offline Points: 285 |
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It would be nice if Avidyne gives us a status update. But speculating won't do anything. As to betting on the release date there are already plenty of online gambling sites.
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tony
Senior Member Joined: 06 Dec 2011 Location: Atlanta Status: Offline Points: 466 |
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not all ACO's are created the same
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chflyer
Senior Member Joined: 24 Jan 2013 Location: LSZK Status: Offline Points: 1022 |
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Sure, I know that. There is a lot of non-public detail behind any new product announcement and development including the timing relationship between the two. This applies equally to Piper, Garmin, and Avidyne.
I agree it will be done when it's done, and have no issue with that. But it would still be interesting to understand (even after that fact) what affects the speed of FAA approvals of this stuff, especially between aircraft and avionics design.
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Vince
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ddgates
Senior Member Joined: 12 Aug 2011 Location: Deer Valley Status: Offline Points: 1100 |
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You are making several assumptions which may or may not be valid.
It is done when it is done. |
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David Gates
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chflyer
Senior Member Joined: 24 Jan 2013 Location: LSZK Status: Offline Points: 1022 |
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Anyone interested making informal bets/estimates of when 10.2/IFD100 will become available? Think we'll see it in time for the first anniversary of the announcement?
Without prejudice to Avidyne, it would sure be interesting to understand the underlying reasons why the FAA takes so long to approve a new software release while Piper can get approval of the M600 with a "clean sheet wing design" and G3000 avionics suite within 44 days! There probably isn't just one cause, but still ... the contrast is blatant. Some possibilities? - FAA staffing levels of different departments (aircraft vs avionics). - FAA priorities (aircraft vs avionics ... not necessarily the same thing as the first point) - FAA comfort zone approving airplane technology vs new electronic technology - Avidyne tying 10.2 software approval to new hardware approval; i.e. not just a software release. |
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Vince
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DavidBunin
Senior Member Joined: 20 May 2015 Location: Rockwall, TX Status: Offline Points: 742 |
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I was referring to products that are conformed to a TSO standard that does not tie to an aircraft-level certification (no STC). Meaning products that are approved at the component level. Like a vertical gyro (attitude indicator) or an altimeter.
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subtle
Newbie Joined: 10 Jun 2013 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2 |
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I am confused by your post.
That said, the connection to this thread is that I am hopeful my two issues listed above will be addressed by 10.2.0
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Old Bob Siegfried
Newbie Joined: 25 Feb 2015 Location: Illinois Status: Offline Points: 19 |
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Hmmmm!I do not see the connection between this and "certified".
Happy Skies, Old Bob
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Old Bob
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subtle
Newbie Joined: 10 Jun 2013 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2 |
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Are traffic "horizontal trends" coming as well as a visual notification when traffic is not available?
Edited by subtle - 04 Nov 2016 at 9:27am |
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Old Bob Siegfried
Newbie Joined: 25 Feb 2015 Location: Illinois Status: Offline Points: 19 |
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"you can add basically anything that is certified."
Would you care to define what 'certified' refers to in this sentence? Happy Skies, Old Bob
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Old Bob
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DavidBunin
Senior Member Joined: 20 May 2015 Location: Rockwall, TX Status: Offline Points: 742 |
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Good point. That's because the Aspen is replacing an original required indicator.
If you're just adding an indicator (additional to the original required equipment), you can add basically anything that is certified.
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TogaDriver
Senior Member Joined: 23 Sep 2013 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 133 |
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David, I seem to remember that Aspen's STC, a while back, required only specific standby indicators by model number. It forced me to install an older, noisy gyro driven, electric one instead of a new silent one. This may have changed since put in my EFD1000 but folks should be aware the Primary's STC can cause sneaky issues with respect to installations.
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Mooneyfan
Newbie Joined: 24 Oct 2016 Location: Belgium Status: Offline Points: 9 |
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If I understand it correctly, even with the 10.2 sw upgrade, the MLX-770 weather info will NOT be displayed on the screen of the IFD540. Is that correct ?
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DavidBunin
Senior Member Joined: 20 May 2015 Location: Rockwall, TX Status: Offline Points: 742 |
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Anything can be a standby indication. (An indicator additional to those specified on the airplane's type certificate.)
To be used a "required" attitude indicator (primary, secondary, whatever is required by your airplane's type certificate) the device has to be locked in the mode that displays a horizon. In other words, you wouldn't be able to use it as anything but the attitude indicator because you wouldn't be able to access the flight plan page or any page other than the attitude indication. Not very cost-effective.
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comancheguy
Senior Member Joined: 24 Aug 2011 Location: Maryland Status: Offline Points: 160 |
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I don't think so.
I am trying to decide between upgrading a 540 to a 550 versus the Garmin G5 or Dynon AI "replacements". (Although, I'll be keeping a vacuum AI for redundancy). Ken
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docricky
Newbie Joined: 20 Sep 2016 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 8 |
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OK imagination, can the ifd 550 potentially serve as a standby EADI or primary instrument for that matter.
Where is Avidyne going with this? I would not mind replacing my six pack with a IFD550 Rick
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paulr
Senior Member Joined: 24 Jan 2014 Status: Offline Points: 545 |
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FF with a Stratus1 is able to do it, presumably by tracking the track delta-- it isn't getting any AHRS or magnetometer data. I'm sure Steve and the crew will put this on the candidate feature list at some point.
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94S
Senior Member Joined: 06 Mar 2014 Location: Bismarck, ND Status: Offline Points: 162 |
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The Garmin G1000 has a turn vector as well.
I'd think that a turn vector requires an AHRS to give the computer the turn rate to calculate the vector from. The IFD550 comes close with its ARS, but doesn't have the heading piece. Maybe they can do the same thing with the rate of change of track instead of rate of change of heading. |
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paulr
Senior Member Joined: 24 Jan 2014 Status: Offline Points: 545 |
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Avidyne has the same problem I do at my day job: they can do anything, but they can't do everything. I'd love for AviJake to have enough budget to double his development staff… so tell all your friends to go buy Brand A avionics!
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swood7
Newbie Joined: 29 Sep 2016 Location: Oregon Status: Offline Points: 9 |
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There are multiple aircraft manufacturers that have the banana bar, though. I never flew it but when I was at the regionals I remember my friends flying the CRJ series mentioning that aircraft has it. On top of that, the CRJ has Collins glass and we have Honeywell in the Boeing, so it doesn't seem to be a Honeywell vs Collins thing, either. Beats me!
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Sean Wood
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paulr
Senior Member Joined: 24 Jan 2014 Status: Offline Points: 545 |
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There may be patent issues, but (cover your ears, Orest) Foreflight has a very similar feature. It doesn't feature the segments, but otherwise works the same way. I'd assume that if they could figure out a legal way to do it, so could Avidyne.
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brou0040
Senior Member Joined: 13 Dec 2012 Location: KIYK Status: Offline Points: 720 |
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That's why the Boeing banana will never get incorporated. The avidyne plantain on the other hand is a great idea. What will the avidyne turn rate feature be called? It also seems like a great idea.
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dmtidler
Senior Member Joined: 12 Feb 2016 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 616 |
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For those of you that are not familiar with the Boeing Position Trend Vector, each segment of the vector represents 30 seconds of look ahead at where the airplane will be based on current ground speed and turn rate.
The pictured display is set at a 20NM scale and one minute of position trend vector is shown (two 30 second segments). At larger map ranges, three segments are displayed and at smaller map ranges, only one segment is displayed. The Boeing Position Trend Vector is always visible in the Boeing map mode display regardless of whether the airplane is turning or not. When the airplane is not in a turn, the positing trend vector is straight and overlays the airplane's track line. As swood7 mentioned...this is a very useful feature for judging the turn rate (bank angle) required to intercept a course. In my experience, Airbus glass aircraft do not have this feature (or the Boeing Banana for that matter). I would suspect there may be some Boeing patent issues with this display. |
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swood7
Newbie Joined: 29 Sep 2016 Location: Oregon Status: Offline Points: 9 |
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Haha I've gathered that after reading a few pages of this thread! |
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Sean Wood
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oskrypuch
Senior Member Joined: 09 Nov 2012 Location: CYFD Status: Offline Points: 3058 |
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Great feature, but the Boeing Banana has to come FIRST!
* Orest |
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swood7
Newbie Joined: 29 Sep 2016 Location: Oregon Status: Offline Points: 9 |
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I have a feature request that I think would be useful, at least somewhere down the line if it's even possible at all. I fly the 757/767 and find the Boeing "turn vector" very useful when intercepting a course. It tells you exactly where you'll be in the turn and can visualize how close you'll be to to the magenta line when maneuvering to intercept. I've attached a picture so you can see what I'm talking about. It's the dashed white line curving to the right. I don't know if it's possible to program something like that or if it would require a type of internal reference system, but if it were possible I think it would help, especially on airplanes without a flight director. I'd be curious to see what you think! Edited by swood7 - 07 Oct 2016 at 11:17pm |
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Sean Wood
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MarkZ
Senior Member Joined: 05 Sep 2015 Location: 0TX0 Status: Offline Points: 172 |
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The FAA doesn't get in any hurry to push this great and innovative equipment through. I'm sure Avidyne walks on eggshells around these guys trying to make it through the maze. I have local friends who are traversing this same bureaucratic slough with the intent to get us a certified electronic ignition. I keep hearing, "Soon". This has been going on for over a year now.
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n7ifr
Senior Member Joined: 05 Aug 2013 Location: Scottsdale, Az Status: Offline Points: 470 |
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At the recent KPRC AOPA flying, Avidyne had 10.2 playing on their demo 540... definitely very cool, especially 3D traffic display with"ground shadows" of flying traffic bogies.
I pointed out that on the screen that shows surrounding Metar-flags, that if only all one had to do was to touch the metar of interest to display its textual data, this would save maybe 4-button pushes. AV-Simpson made a note to try to include... He also passed along, "... end of November" as hopeful release date!?! Tom W. |
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chflyer
Senior Member Joined: 24 Jan 2013 Location: LSZK Status: Offline Points: 1022 |
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The best use of the waiting time is thorough study of the draft PG, so that you're all trained up and quick off the block once 10.2 is released. The only problem with that is the need to keep a kleenex handy to catch all the drooling. ;-)
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Vince
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tomd
Newbie Joined: 15 Apr 2016 Location: KMSN Status: Offline Points: 26 |
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Thanks Vince...that was my hunch too. I'll sit and anxiously wait.
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Bonanza F33a
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chflyer
Senior Member Joined: 24 Jan 2013 Location: LSZK Status: Offline Points: 1022 |
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I suspect that there is no such animal, and that no one will really know until perhaps the day before (Avidyne included), except perhaps someone in the FAA.
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Vince
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tomd
Newbie Joined: 15 Apr 2016 Location: KMSN Status: Offline Points: 26 |
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anyone have insider info when 10.2 will be released?
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Bonanza F33a
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oskrypuch
Senior Member Joined: 09 Nov 2012 Location: CYFD Status: Offline Points: 3058 |
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The tactile feedback keyboard, nicely secured on my yoke, is far more secure and accurate for input than using a tablet or the IFD on-screen keypad, the external keyboard will remain my preference.
* Orest Edited by oskrypuch - 23 Sep 2016 at 9:34pm |
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brou0040
Senior Member Joined: 13 Dec 2012 Location: KIYK Status: Offline Points: 720 |
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It may also vary based on conditions. When it's bumpy, putting two hands on the keyboard may be preferred. If you can find a convenient place to stash it, I could see using both.
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MysticCobra
Senior Member Joined: 29 Jan 2013 Status: Offline Points: 648 |
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Personal preference will answer that question. Some folks will prefer having the "always right there", tactile keyboard available. Others may not.
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tomd
Newbie Joined: 15 Apr 2016 Location: KMSN Status: Offline Points: 26 |
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when the IFD100 iPad app comes out, is there a compelling reason to continue using the keyboard?
(assuming you own an IPad)
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Bonanza F33a
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Catani
Senior Member Joined: 21 Jan 2016 Status: Offline Points: 362 |
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Great caption for that keyboard setup. We called them "rockets" back in the day when I flew Cobras. And indeed, miniguns ruled at 200 AGL. Love your handle, MysticCobra!
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oskrypuch
Senior Member Joined: 09 Nov 2012 Location: CYFD Status: Offline Points: 3058 |
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Now, THOSE would be really cool STCs! LOL. * Orest |
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MysticCobra
Senior Member Joined: 29 Jan 2013 Status: Offline Points: 648 |
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That photo screams, "Too close for missiles--switching to guns!" :-)
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oskrypuch
Senior Member Joined: 09 Nov 2012 Location: CYFD Status: Offline Points: 3058 |
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Try it, you'll like it! Really. I have mine mounted on top of my yoke. It's perfect! * Orest Edited by oskrypuch - 15 Sep 2016 at 9:38pm |
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pburger
Senior Member Joined: 26 Dec 2013 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 406 |
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You just delayed it three weeks!
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sikhpilotmd
Groupie Joined: 08 Oct 2014 Location: KISP Status: Offline Points: 69 |
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Or the whole thing was a big joke.......
I'm perfectly happy with things the way they are. I know what buttons to press and how to load approaches etc. never used the keyboard either. |
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Jack Seubert
Groupie Joined: 17 Aug 2012 Location: Memphis, TN Status: Offline Points: 53 |
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It sure has been quiet on Avidyne Live, I wonder if that means software release 10.2.0.0 is getting close, I hope!
Jack
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Jack Seubert
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brou0040
Senior Member Joined: 13 Dec 2012 Location: KIYK Status: Offline Points: 720 |
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I hear what you are saying and agree that you need to verify the waypoints including altitudes, but I disagree that the chart is the only place for altitude information. The FMS gets altitude information from an IFR approved database (which has the correct information), but the IFD is presenting that information to the pilot incorrectly. We should be able to expect (but verify) the vertical and lateral information to be correct, or it should not be displayed. To be clear, I'm talking about the altitudes constraints listed on the FPL tab in the flight plan and that are displayed with the standard above/below bars, not the VSR or TOD reference altitudes.
Edited by brou0040 - 09 Sep 2016 at 12:08am |
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Catani
Senior Member Joined: 21 Jan 2016 Status: Offline Points: 362 |
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Did not see your post on RAL/AJO, but still don't agree the FMS is doing anything wrong. You don't get holding altitudes from the FMS, you get them from charts. Also, I've got an STec 55X and it definitely does not take input from the FMS for altitudes. The autopilot either levels off when I hit "ALT HOLD" or it follows bugs I set on the PFD for altitude -- and definitely not anything the FMS says. The FMS is a horizontal guidance device only, as far as the autopilot is concerned. And if you're hand flying, the FMS is not where you get your altitude information either - that comes from charts. The IFD FMS has bells and whistles for "begin descent" reminders, but that's all they are. If they are wrong, don't follow them - but understand why they are wrong so you know what the box is doing. It's not the FMS's primary function to tell you what altitude you should be at, and most of the time it doesn't even care. Not so for you.
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brou0040
Senior Member Joined: 13 Dec 2012 Location: KIYK Status: Offline Points: 720 |
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Thanks Catani for the thoughts. I agree the identical approaches isn't the greatest real-world issue, but it definitely could be. I know I've shot 2 approaches in IMC into the same airport in order to get my 6 in 6. Also, this is just a simple example of something I think the IFDs are doing wrong. Did you see my post a few up that had an approach into RAL then an an approach into AJO, that put the hold 1500 feet lower than it should have? Regarding the altitudes, the FMS would be having you descend if it was coupled to an autopilot. Even it wasn't coupled, it would be giving you incorrect altitude guidance. It shows this information in the flight plan.
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Catani
Senior Member Joined: 21 Jan 2016 Status: Offline Points: 362 |
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Loading two identical approaches is for IFR practice only, so it's doesn't sound like a real-world issue - at least to me anyway. If you were actual IFR on a trip from OSH to MTW, you would load one approach and execute it to a landing unless the weather was close to or below minimums. If the latter, before starting the approach you might add your alternate as the next waypoint after the missed approach hold, and be ready to execute the missed approach instructions that are often different from the missed approach procedure. Or you might wait to load the alternate after starting the missed, whatever your preference is, and then picking an approach while enroute - again, whatever your preference. Secondly, while you say the FMS "has you descend," unless it's somehow coupled to your autopilot you should remain at 3000 feet, assuming you've programmed your autopilot to climb to and maintain that altitude as you execute the missed. The FMS will not bring you down to 2400, you have to do that, if I understand that correctly. If you've not yet been cleared for the second practice approach, you stay in holding at 3000 until you do get clearance. Again, even in practice, I don't see the real world issue. By loading two identical approaches, what you've told the FMS is that you want to proceed to the MAP, and then commence the second approach. The FMS doesn't know what ATC has told you, but it does sequence when you get there whether you are cleared or not. If in a real-world IFR situation where your clearance limit is the IAF, and you have not been cleared further upon reaching, you are supposed to enter holding at the clearance limit/IAF until receiving clearance whether you've told the FMS not to sequence or not. The FMS does not know what ATC has told you - you have to tell the FMS to hold and not sequence. If you don't, it will sequence. In your example, the FMS thinks you're going to fly the second approach upon reaching the IAF, unless you tell it not to sequence. Since almost all of the time you are cleared before reaching the IAF, having it automatically sequence is the expected behavior. Having the FMS routinely suspend itself upon reaching the IAF until further prompted to satisfy the atypical situation of multiple identical approaches may introduce bigger problems - like having it not sequence for the guy sliding down the final approach course trying to figure out how to get the FMS to catch up. Maybe I did not understand the question properly, but this is my take on what I thought the question was. |
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M20J
Newbie Joined: 15 Nov 2015 Location: CZBA Status: Offline Points: 32 |
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My pitot/static is due at the end of September, I'm hoping that 10.2 will be ready by then and I can get it all done with one visit to the shop. Wishful thinking??
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