IFD Software Release 10.2.0.0 |
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AviSimpson
Senior Member Joined: 31 Mar 2015 Location: Lincoln, MA Status: Offline Points: 765 |
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I don't have any more information to add, I wasn't apart of that conversation. What I can add is that there is certainly interest on our end, once the dust settles with the 10.2 fury, I will see where we can fit this in.
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Simpson Bennett
Avidyne Corporation Product Manager |
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210 Driver
Newbie Joined: 28 Jan 2014 Location: Alberta, CAN Status: Offline Points: 39 |
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Maybe a letter writing campaign to your FAA...??? Let them know this is a long overdue update, and there are hundreds of us waiting.
Edited by 210 Driver - 25 Nov 2016 at 12:53am |
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210 Driver
Newbie Joined: 28 Jan 2014 Location: Alberta, CAN Status: Offline Points: 39 |
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Maybe a letter writing campaign to your FAA...??? Let them know this is a long overdue update, and there are hundreds of us waiting. |
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dmtidler
Senior Member Joined: 12 Feb 2016 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 616 |
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When 10.2.0.0 is released, will it be customer / local mechanic downloadable?
A few months ago, Avidyne changed the initial Dealer Support web page where the previous IFD update downloads were located. Unless I'm missing another public web page that contains the latest IFD update download, it now appears dealer credentials are required for access to IFD updates. |
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Old Bob Siegfried
Newbie Joined: 25 Feb 2015 Location: Illinois Status: Offline Points: 19 |
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It you must write to someone, write to your congressman, not the FAA.
Happy Skies, Old Bob
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Old Bob
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mfb
Senior Member Joined: 20 Dec 2014 Location: KATW Status: Offline Points: 293 |
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I agree. Writing the FAA will just slow things down while somebody reads the letters. The FAA has its procedures and it's going to follow them no matter what. Pressure from outside won't speed anyone up. Mike
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210 Driver
Newbie Joined: 28 Jan 2014 Location: Alberta, CAN Status: Offline Points: 39 |
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Can't Old Bob...Canadian. The 540 sure is a great box though,really enjoying learning its capabilities flying through the States! |
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DavidBunin
Senior Member Joined: 20 May 2015 Location: Rockwall, TX Status: Offline Points: 742 |
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1: They already know. 2: They don't care (and they shouldn't). Their job is to review data without bias or pressure. Sometimes they're really good at that, sometimes not. But you can only ask Dad "are we there yet" so many times before he just pulls the car over in frustration to bark at you. Then you're not going anywhere. It's a lot like being in line at the DMV. You can't jump the line. You can't make it go any faster. You can't leave and go somewhere else. You just have to wait. The system doesn't care. David Bunin Edited by DavidBunin - 28 Nov 2016 at 7:40am |
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Catani
Senior Member Joined: 21 Jan 2016 Status: Offline Points: 362 |
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Why assume the people at the FAA who are reviewing Avidyne's work don't care? Could there be a lot of back and forth going on? Could Avidyne be taking a lot of time to address questions and generate missing data the reviewers may be asking for? Could Avidyne actually be experiencing difficulty showing the platform is stable or the data reliable? Or could it be that the FAA reviewers are actually acting in bad faith out of some kind of animus towards Avidyne and its hapless customers? Or are they just short-staffed, lazy, inexperienced and/or overwhelmed? Or is Garmin but not Avidyne willing to pay the personal bribe money the reviewers are demanding as a condition of approval? Or some random combination of any of the above possible reasons? Who outside of Avidyne and the FAA knows the facts? Will the FAA or Avidyne make public the communications each has had about this issue so that we have actual facts to base conclusions upon?
No, probably not - more likely is that this forever remain a mystery allowing frustrated and imaginary juices to flow in people who will speculate and get agitated. I wish all communications with government involving proprietary information weren't so shrouded in secrecy. Surely there is a way to redact what it truly proprietary so we can see what is going on without harming confidential corporate secrets, plans and inventions. But who would be the final judge limiting what gets redacted just to proprietary stuff, while not redacting all the embarrassing parts so the public gets the whole story? Would manufacturers ever allow that? I am as anxious to get my hands on 10.2 as anyone, but I'm resigned to never knowing the actual details of this specific approval history, and therefore unable judge for myself how it can be improved or whom to blame. What I do know is that I don't want any experimental primary navigational equipment in my airplane, so I'm not willing to skip the approval process - whoever is responsible for the delays - just so I can have it right now.
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chflyer
Senior Member Joined: 24 Jan 2013 Location: LSZK Status: Offline Points: 1022 |
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Amen.
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Vince
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n7ifr
Senior Member Joined: 05 Aug 2013 Location: Scottsdale, Az Status: Offline Points: 470 |
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David,
My #1 540 displays and gives audio alerts from TAS605, and #2 540 displays MLB100 ADSB. No separate audio alert AFAIK, but I display the traffic rings on #2 540 as extra alert of proximity. BTW, the Aspens also display the #1 540 TAS targets. All we really need is the long awaited TAS "A" and v10.2 software updates - OK, its End of November... Tom W p.s. It sure would be great if Avidyne would deal with Seattle Avionics instead of Jepp to supply Charts for our 540's, especially since I just broke for their "Black Friday" ChartData1 deal!
Edited by n7ifr - 30 Nov 2016 at 12:24am |
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195pilot
Newbie Joined: 11 May 2016 Location: KDPA -IL Status: Offline Points: 17 |
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Apparently Jeppesen believes that the arrival of 10.2 is near. When I downloaded the latest database revisions, I noticed an alert from them of an upcoming update for JDM to accommodate 10.2 They went on to say "in the next few weeks".
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Ibraham
Senior Member Joined: 21 May 2016 Location: KHWO Status: Offline Points: 357 |
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It has been near completion since April, few weeks is wishful thinking |
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khuffine
Groupie Joined: 12 Dec 2015 Location: GSO Status: Offline Points: 68 |
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I heard that garmin approves their own stuff because the FAA is unable to be as good as Garmin so they allow them to approve when THEY think its ready for the public..Anyone else heard that??
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Khuffine
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tony
Senior Member Joined: 06 Dec 2011 Location: Atlanta Status: Offline Points: 466 |
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Garmin has an ODA
which has delegation for PMA's, STC's and TSOA's.
Edited by tony - 01 Dec 2016 at 5:27pm |
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oskrypuch
Senior Member Joined: 09 Nov 2012 Location: CYFD Status: Offline Points: 3058 |
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Very handy. * Orest
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AzAv8r
Senior Member Joined: 06 Dec 2011 Location: Arizona Status: Offline Points: 154 |
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There's a clue in that 10.2 features post I missed before:
"16. IFD550 Support – Release 10.2.0.0 software fully supports the new IFD550 product which will be released at the same time." We all know about the IFD 540 approval delays. I'm going to speculate that Avidyne has been holding back the software pending 550 approval, if for no other reason than to ensure that any last-minute fixes the FAA requires for the 550 show up in the release. The SW release process is not something they'd want to do on a monthly basis where outside approvals are necessary. |
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chflyer
Senior Member Joined: 24 Jan 2013 Location: LSZK Status: Offline Points: 1022 |
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I don't know if holding back is the correct term, but it is pretty clear that 10.2 and IFD550 availability will happen at the same time. I think that Avidyne has intentionally linked 10.2 & IFD550 approvals, possibly for internal & FAA interlock efficiency reasons, like the one you mention.
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Vince
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DavidBunin
Senior Member Joined: 20 May 2015 Location: Rockwall, TX Status: Offline Points: 742 |
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It's not exactly bribe money, but as Tony said, Garmin has an ODA. Just as the FAA delegates pilot approval to a Designated Pilot Examiner, they also have the ability to delegate certification approval. Getting an ODA takes years (possibly decades) of product approval history. Only the largest companies get an ODA (think Boeing, Cessna). But once you have ODA, your ODA office does the approval for your products, and the FAA audits the ODA office to ensure they are following their procedures and staying within their limitations. The nice thing about ODA is that it is not subject to government funding limitations, and it is not responsible for approving products for any/every applicant that walks in the door with a gadget and a dream. Garmin's ODA has hundreds and hundreds of employees working 100% of the time on only Garmin certification projects. (This doesn't count the number of people on the true "Garmin" side of the wall submitting the applications.) I believe in economics, they refer to this as a "barrier to entry". David Bunin |
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Catani
Senior Member Joined: 21 Jan 2016 Status: Offline Points: 362 |
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Wow, that ODA is the key to the vault. Amazing it takes hundreds of employees just to accomplish for Garmin what the FAA folks have to do for everybody else. If it takes that kind of manpower to ensure products are safe and reliable, it's no wonder especially with sequestration and budget cuts that the FAA can't provide same-day service for everyone else.
Edited by Catani - 03 Dec 2016 at 8:24am |
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paulr
Senior Member Joined: 24 Jan 2014 Status: Offline Points: 545 |
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In fairness, Garmin has a broader product line that they have to tend to, including helicopter-specific products, all of the Gx000 stuff, and offerings for both Part 23 and Part 25 aircraft. That doesn't necessarily translate to "hundreds" but I can easily see why they'd need a much larger staff than Avidyne might to get the same product velocity.
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Catani
Senior Member Joined: 21 Jan 2016 Status: Offline Points: 362 |
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My point was that, according to Tony and David, Garmin has a separate class of employees that Avidyne does not: those in Garmin's ODA department. For this class of employee, Garmin doesn't have more ODA staff than Avidyne because of Garmin's size, Garmin has more of them because Avidyne doesn't have any. Garmin pays their ODA employees to do what FAA employees would otherwise do. Since the ODA headcount is in the hundreds according to David, Garmin must be paying a lot for this capability. It also gives you an idea of the scale of QA it takes for just one company's products to assure the products do what they are supposed to do reliably and safefly. While Avidyne relies upon the FAA for this service, the manpower Garmin needs on its own gives you a glimpse of the manpower the FAA would need to do that job for everybody else at the same speed Garmin can do for itself. Even worse from Avidyne's perspective, FAA's budget cuts and sequestration and staff reductions have given Garmin an even greater competitive advantage than they would have had otherwise. Another cross for Avidyne and competitors to bear, not to mention their patiently waiting customers.
Edited by Catani - 04 Dec 2016 at 10:50am |
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genelee59
Newbie Joined: 25 Nov 2016 Location: Dallas Status: Offline Points: 18 |
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I purchased my IFD 440 through one of Avidyne’s distributors, SteinAir, as a trade-up from my Garmin 430w. Before I swapped out my Garmin 430w for the IFD440 I specially asked about the compatibility. You can see my question, and their answer (that they got from their contact at Avidyne) below. HOWEVER, I didn’t learn until later that in fact the Garmin 330ES is NOT supported until version 10.2 Now I’m stuck with ADS-B that is no longer working correctly anymore. So at this point it’s really irrelevant who’s the bottleneck that’s causing 10.2 not to be ready yet. It’s Absolutely Ridiculous that something which was “now sufficiently close to completion” on APRIL 1st still isn’t available 8+ months later. ---- ME: on the 2nd page of the setup, the RS232 page, I have a couple questions. Their “Aviation” selection calls out a GTX 327, but I have a GTX 330ES. And in my Garmin I have “ADS-B OUT +”. The closest I see is in the Avidyne manual is “ADS-B (Avi)”. Again, it doesn’t list my GTX330ES either. Despite the differences, are these the equivalent settings that I will be entering into the 440?
STEINAIR (Their Authorized Distributor): You will set the IFD440 serial # 2 out to Aviation. The list of devices such as the GTX327, is just an example of items that use the Aviation format. It is the same format as Aviation on the GNS430W. You will set serial #3 out to ADS-B (Avi). That is the same as Garmin’s ADS-B+. |
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OliverBucher
Newbie Joined: 12 Dec 2016 Location: Germany EDDS Status: Offline Points: 33 |
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Hello, after update the Jeppesen JDM I see as a remark that I need software 10.2. Can I use now the downloaded NavData´s ... ?
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Oliver Bucher
Plane: DA40-180 |
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chflyer
Senior Member Joined: 24 Jan 2013 Location: LSZK Status: Offline Points: 1022 |
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Yes Oliver.
This remark just appeared very recently, with update cycle 1611 or 1612 I believe. I have been continuing to update including the latest 1613 that became effective last week and they work fine. Apparently Jepp feels that they are ready to support 10.2 which is good news even if their way of communicating that is a bit odd.
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Vince
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GuyRocket
Newbie Joined: 20 Sep 2016 Status: Offline Points: 1 |
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I learned that the hard way too. I lost ADSB compliance when I swapped my 530W for an IFD 540 in my RV-10. The equivalent of ADS-B OUT+ is coming in release 10.2. Both Avidyne and Rob Hickman from Advanced Flight Systems have confirmed this.
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RV-8
RV-10 |
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khuffine
Groupie Joined: 12 Dec 2015 Location: GSO Status: Offline Points: 68 |
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All I want for xmas is 10.2 and ifd100 under my tree😜
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Khuffine
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pburger
Senior Member Joined: 26 Dec 2013 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 406 |
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210 Driver
Newbie Joined: 28 Jan 2014 Location: Alberta, CAN Status: Offline Points: 39 |
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+1 !!! |
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cbenedikt
Newbie Joined: 27 Oct 2015 Location: Suwanee, GA Status: Offline Points: 16 |
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+2!!!!!
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jkturner
Newbie Joined: 01 Jul 2013 Location: Modesto Cal. Status: Offline Points: 3 |
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+3!!!!!!
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JT
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N927BC
Newbie Joined: 01 Feb 2016 Location: KPAE Status: Offline Points: 15 |
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I think we all have a good chance to get 10.2 for Christmas (2017)
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Old Bob Siegfried
Newbie Joined: 25 Feb 2015 Location: Illinois Status: Offline Points: 19 |
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Dreamer!
Nice to see your confidence though. Happy Skies, Old Bob
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Old Bob
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glassanza
Groupie Joined: 26 Feb 2013 Location: Georgia Status: Offline Points: 98 |
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Old Bob you crack me up! Can't beat someone that just puts it out there, I'm guessing a chocolate bunny with a sim card inside from AviSimpson...
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GDC25
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n7ifr
Senior Member Joined: 05 Aug 2013 Location: Scottsdale, Az Status: Offline Points: 470 |
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AV jake/AV Simpson:
Give us Holiday Hope. At least give us another Avidyne promise for a "Target" date. How about a new Target Date New Year's 2017 Resolution for v10.2 to fix some of the very old squawks in present 540's and for the even longer overdue promised and "paid for upgrades" for TAS "A". Breath holding getting very old. Tom W.
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George
Groupie Joined: 08 Apr 2014 Location: 66Y Status: Offline Points: 82 |
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Bah , Humbug.
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ddgates
Senior Member Joined: 12 Aug 2011 Location: Deer Valley Status: Offline Points: 1100 |
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Waiting hasn't been fun and I suspect we will have some more fun yet in that context.
-BUT- HAPPY HOLIDAYS TO ALL THE AVIDYNE STAFF AND PARTICIPANTS ON THIS BOARD. It's snowing cats and dogs (?) in Northern Arizona so would not be flying anyway.
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David Gates
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OliverBucher
Newbie Joined: 12 Dec 2016 Location: Germany EDDS Status: Offline Points: 33 |
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Hello, in the newest IFD540 FAQ document from Avidyne (27.12.2016) is a interesting statement about the 10.2 Release 10.2 must be finished :-) Cause I am from germany and my english ICAO Level is only 4. "was approved" must be the past or? But now I hope that it will be released in January. I am waiting hopefully for the European VFR Charts. Due to the Jeppesen Data bundel, I have at the moment no VFR Approach Charts avaiable. Or I must pay a realy high price for the additional subscription. Greetings Oliver |
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Oliver Bucher
Plane: DA40-180 |
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oskrypuch
Senior Member Joined: 09 Nov 2012 Location: CYFD Status: Offline Points: 3058 |
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Oliver, your observations appear to be spot on. Of course the FAQ could still be updated, yet again - let's hope not.
* Orest |
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AzAv8r
Senior Member Joined: 06 Dec 2011 Location: Arizona Status: Offline Points: 154 |
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You are quite correct.
The verb tense is clearly wrong, but Avidyne has two weeks to render it it mostly-correct. Let's hope they make it! (Explaining my nit-picking of the FAQ -> "Mostly-correct": Even if they release in January - please, please, please - the past-tense can never be correct for a statement overtly labelled to be valid on a date prior to described event. Until we master time-travel.) |
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chflyer
Senior Member Joined: 24 Jan 2013 Location: LSZK Status: Offline Points: 1022 |
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As of 27 December 2016, Avidyne appears to have considered January 2017 to be in the past. ;-)
Seriously, this is very good news indeed and we should perhaps expect a press release within the next two weeks, announcing availability. I notice that at the moment there is nothing in the Apple store yet related to the IFD100. There are a lot of open questions about how the IFD100 and panel-mounts will be kept in software release, navdata, waypoint, FPL, etc sync. So there must be some doc updates also in the works, perhaps even an IFD100-specific manual ??? |
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Vince
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Alouicious
Newbie Joined: 16 Dec 2015 Location: OR70 and KBOW Status: Offline Points: 20 |
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Let's hope this isn't 'fake news.'
However, as much that has been discussed and as long as this has taken, some of us will be disappointed, considering the posts on the 'what I wish for in the next update' thread. If all the changes proposed back in April are incorporated, let us be wishful for future updates, and I fly just an old 182.
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Be happy! Your choice.
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genelee59
Newbie Joined: 25 Nov 2016 Location: Dallas Status: Offline Points: 18 |
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Being new to Avidyne equipment (somewhat regrettably at this point, I have to say), maybe my expectations haven't been sufficiently beaten down yet, and to the rest of you this may be a ridiculous question. Why isn't AVIDYNE joining in on this forum and keeping its Customers informed on what's going on??? |
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paulr
Senior Member Joined: 24 Jan 2014 Status: Offline Points: 545 |
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In general, they do and they have. But in the past, similar threads about software releases have gone a bit wonky. Avidyne doesn't have, and can't guarantee, an exact date for the release because they're waiting on the FAA. With past releases, when AviJake mentioned possible release dates and they were missed, some of us got out the torches and pitchforks. So although AviSimpson answers posts in a lot of *other* threads, I suspect there's been a conscious decision by the Avidyne brass to refrain from posts about 10.2 availability until it is 100% done and ready to ship. I can't say that I blame them. It'll be done when it's done.
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genelee59
Newbie Joined: 25 Nov 2016 Location: Dallas Status: Offline Points: 18 |
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Yes, I can see their point on that. And If this were simply 'cool new features' that I was waiting on I guess I would be more understanding. But I'm frustrated by being in the position now where my aircraft's ADS-B is no longer working correctly (Nov 25th post). I would think that Avidyne would have a relationship with the FAA that would keep them in the loop and provide them with more insight to the FAA's schedule. Perhaps Avidyne is as frustrated with the FAA as I am with this situation. |
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MysticCobra
Senior Member Joined: 29 Jan 2013 Status: Offline Points: 648 |
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I am sure that is the case, or at least frustrated that the process takes as long as it does, even if there might be good reasons for it. Certainly there are no meetings at Avidyne World Headquarters where they're sitting around congratulating each other on how another month has gone by without 10.2 hitting the street.
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oskrypuch
Senior Member Joined: 09 Nov 2012 Location: CYFD Status: Offline Points: 3058 |
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+1 on the comments above.
Consider also that Avidyne is perhaps the only major avionics manufacturer that provides this kind of active forum presence. You have to give them full marks for that. I am sure that it will be Avidyne itself, that will be the very happiest when 10.2 releases. * Orest |
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AUXAIR
Senior Member Joined: 01 Jul 2015 Location: KSUA Status: Offline Points: 138 |
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I give Avidyne "full marks" for their responsiveness, and for being one of the only major manufacturers to be so open with their user community.
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David E.
Cessna 182 RG II |
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AviSimpson
Senior Member Joined: 31 Mar 2015 Location: Lincoln, MA Status: Offline Points: 765 |
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Sorry for the delay in posting an update, I was hoping to post an "all done and ready to go" post but we can't (as AviJake would say) "spike the ball" just yet. With the holidays and a recent personal vacation, I wasn't able to get a post out sooner to you all so I apologize.
We are very very very close to FAA approval. With a release this big, there are many steps and submissions that needed to be made. It's too close to call for an approval date right now, we have our final flights with the FAA test pilot. We are at the stage were a bad weather day could push the expected date and unfortunately, we are in the season of frequent bad weather.
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Simpson Bennett
Avidyne Corporation Product Manager |
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genelee59
Newbie Joined: 25 Nov 2016 Location: Dallas Status: Offline Points: 18 |
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That's Great news and A Big Thanks for the update!
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