Now a new problem. Shop won't do 10.2 update. |
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teeth6
Senior Member Joined: 10 Mar 2014 Status: Offline Points: 741 |
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Posted: 09 Sep 2017 at 9:58pm |
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It seems there is not much concern/interest in the end of MLB 700 weather at year end. Either there aren't that many MLB 700s out there, or most users are happy to use ADS-B. I'd like to continue using panel mount XM weather but wish there were another option besides an outdated GDL 69. I'm hoping Avidyne comes up with another option.
Edited by teeth6 - 09 Sep 2017 at 10:03pm |
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Kentwkalb
Newbie Joined: 31 Dec 2015 Location: KFGX Status: Offline Points: 6 |
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I had my 10.2 update 2 weeks ago at Eastern Cincinnati Avionics at I69, Sporty's Airport. I had a previous problem with NavData updates on my 540. No problem with the 440. When the 10.2 update was started on the 540, there were errors with the update. No problem with the 440. The shop discovered an Avidyne "corrupt file" that had come from the factory on some 540's. They got a copy of the zip file that resolved the corrupt file. The next day the zip file corrected all errors, including the previous NavData problems. The 10.2 update is "as advertised". Full functionality with the Bluetooth keyboard is great! Hope others may have success with the update, knowing the zip file is available. It did not come from Avidyne, but another shop Cincy Avionics knew. I'm sure Eastern Cincinnati Avionics would be glad to help you shop with the zip file that resolves many issues with the 540 units.
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Royski
Groupie Joined: 26 Feb 2013 Status: Offline Points: 87 |
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Mine bricked during the update but fortunately the shop had a loaner 540 for me and Avidyne did not charge to fix it (I was out some amount of shop time plus shipping). I think Avidyne did hardware mod 16 while they had it — not sure what that entails.
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tony
Senior Member Joined: 06 Dec 2011 Location: Atlanta Status: Offline Points: 466 |
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I talked to tech support about the $1200 charge before I upgraded my units. They told me that if a factory authorized service center did the upgrade and it bricked, there was no charge for the repair. If I did it myself and it bricked, there would be a charge. I took mine to a factory authorized service center. There was no issue. |
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oskrypuch
Senior Member Joined: 09 Nov 2012 Location: CYFD Status: Offline Points: 3058 |
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Further to this, there is now a simple field procedure (single file on a USB key) to un-brick a unit that locks up during the update, whether caused by an error in procedure, or otherwise.
The key to that is to NOT POWER DOWN the unit, if it happens, and to call Tech Support. * Orest Edited by oskrypuch - 12 Jul 2017 at 12:03pm |
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ddgates
Senior Member Joined: 12 Aug 2011 Location: Deer Valley Status: Offline Points: 1100 |
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I started this thread for the reasons I posted.
It took quite a bit of discussion to get the installing shop to do the updates because of all the red letter $1200 warnings. The solution I came up with was that if there was bricking because of shop error, they were on the hook for the $1200. If because of system or software, I was on the hook, but understood that I would be seeking redress from Avidyne. Finally they got around to doing the updates on my two IFD540s. No issues, no bricks. Getting 10.2 installed gave new functionality and in my case fixed some I/O initialization issues which were a 10.1.2.3 or something like that update which I didn't get. So actually my units work better now. One thing is certain - all of the red letter $1200 warnings got everybody's attention, which I think was Avidyne's purpose. Would I have done it that way, no, but I'm not Avidyne. And FWIW I don't think the $1200 charge has been applied, at least where the unit itself was the issue. YMMV.
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David Gates
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LANCE
Senior Member Joined: 06 Dec 2014 Location: TEXAS Status: Offline Points: 277 |
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1 out of 5 brick) Absolutely not true. If that was the case there would be an uprising on here and other forums. The instructions are explicit and if followed work very well. I have done numerous software updates on 540 and 440 and now own a 550, even the big update a couple years ago where the micro sd card had to come out and be updated. No problems whatsoever, but I took my time and followed instructions to the tee and checked off the steps after they were completed. During software updates I've never had to call Avidyne support but I have called them once on configs and they were outstanding. Here I sit with old software . . . I worry about mine) There is a possibility of failure in every aspect of life, including flying, but that fear doesn't paralyze us . . we're pilots. Don't forego the benefits of 10.2 over concern about this. If the instructions are followed the odds are overwhelming that it will work. If the instructions were followed and something bad happened I'm confident that Avidyne would take care of you. $1,200 charge) I haven't heard of anyone that has actually been charged $1200. I would guess that they don't want just anyone doing the updates haphazardly. If you don't follow the instructions and leave steps out it could happen. Edited by LANCE - 12 Jul 2017 at 11:08am |
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Bad1996
Senior Member Joined: 11 Feb 2015 Location: Dalton, Ga. Status: Offline Points: 103 |
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I have heard 1 out of 5 brick. The $1,200 charge (may or may not be charged) is one of the dumbest things I have ever heard. If you can't make the box without it bricking OR without charging a fee for your mistake (allowing it to brick) then maybe you need to be in another business. I love my 540 and highly promote it ..... Well I did before now. What do I do now...tell folks it's GREAT but I'm scared to have it updated with new software ?
Here I sit with old software. A dealer did my buddies, it bricked and now I worry about mine, mostly a $1,200 charge. Garmin is laughing their ass's off right now. |
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Gring
Senior Member Joined: 30 Dec 2011 Location: Kingston, NY Status: Offline Points: 722 |
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I don't think there will be a new solution for the IFD series before Dec 31. You really have only two choices - 1) SKytrax ADSB or 2) a used GDL69 or 69/A with software between 4.0 and 4.99. If you have R9, Avidyne will need to complete software version 9.4 so you can connect a SKytrax 100.
Edited by Gring - 12 Jul 2017 at 6:56am |
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teeth6
Senior Member Joined: 10 Mar 2014 Status: Offline Points: 741 |
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I would want to keep a weather and music subscription, however, after speaking with Avidyne tech support, I was not told of any effort to get the newer software GDL69 to work with the Avidynes. I am hoping someone comes up with a better solution prior to the December 31 deadline
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oskrypuch
Senior Member Joined: 09 Nov 2012 Location: CYFD Status: Offline Points: 3058 |
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The weather access from the GDL69A works just fine on the IFD. I don't think I've heard otherwise from anyone.
But, there is a glitch in trying to tune the satellite radio stations with the latest software, if you have that subscription. Personally I doubt it was really G doing something prickly, and I understand that A is working on a software update that will address this in any case. * Orest Edited by oskrypuch - 10 Jul 2017 at 10:36am |
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teeth6
Senior Member Joined: 10 Mar 2014 Status: Offline Points: 741 |
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My understanding is that the used GDL will have to be in the 4.X software level as Garmin made a change to prevent it's use in the 540s in a newer release. My concern is that the GDL at this older software level will become harder to find. I am hoping Avidyne will make a change to allow the use of the Heads Up Technology receiver. They supported that in the EX 500, EX 600 and EX 5000 so they should be able to make it compatible with the 540/440s.
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TangoCharlie
Newbie Joined: 31 May 2016 Location: KISP Status: Offline Points: 17 |
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We have the opposite problem. When everything is on, we cannot tune he GDL69A audio with the IFD, it doesn't seem to recognize that it exists. And if we tune it with the remote (an option with he newer units at we installed when we realized the IFD would not tune it), it changes back to the demo channel within seconds. However, if we simply power down the IFD, we can tune the audio fine with the remote and it works normally, This is why we believe it is the IFD that is causing it to tune back to channel 1. |
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--Mark M
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pitchristian
Newbie Joined: 16 Apr 2016 Location: KLBE Status: Offline Points: 12 |
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How much did Smart Charge for the Update?
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wintec
Newbie Joined: 21 Aug 2014 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3 |
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Smart avionics near lancaster will do it 717 9284360 very reliable and does it on the bench did mine in has done several with no issues talk to Ben tell him Evan sent you
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Gring
Senior Member Joined: 30 Dec 2011 Location: Kingston, NY Status: Offline Points: 722 |
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My understanding is that it will be Dec 31 2017
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310pilot
Senior Member Joined: 13 Apr 2015 Location: Louisville, KY Status: Offline Points: 102 |
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Hey Gring
What do you know as to when the MLB700 will become extinct. I spoke with my contacts at WSI and XM to convey how bad of an idea it is to turn this off but latest I heard was April but April is almost over. Thanks |
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oskrypuch
Senior Member Joined: 09 Nov 2012 Location: CYFD Status: Offline Points: 3058 |
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What I was told was that the GDL69-A will play music just fine, and you can change the channels from the IFD screen, BUT the remote control does not currently work -- no matter what station you select it puts it to the demo station, or something like that. I expect it is just a software glitch, and will eventually be fixed.
* Orest Edited by oskrypuch - 30 Apr 2017 at 11:53am |
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Gring
Senior Member Joined: 30 Dec 2011 Location: Kingston, NY Status: Offline Points: 722 |
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Can you expand on your comment about the GDL69/A not playing music? It was my understanding that not only should it play music, the IFD will control the channel change and audio. I have an MLB700 that will become obsolete (thanks to my employer IBM) and my plan was to buy a used GDL69/A to replace it. I do not want have two boxes.
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TangoCharlie
Newbie Joined: 31 May 2016 Location: KISP Status: Offline Points: 17 |
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Just to follow up on this, Avidyne exchanged our 540 and we were back up in about a week. We're so far pleased with 10.2, even right out of the gate with vastly improved database update speeds. More good news is it now properly displays traffic from our Lynx NGT-9000 (basic info only but that's all we were hoping for), a pleasant surprise. GDL-69A (Sirius) does fine with WX but the IFD still prevents music audio from working, same as before. Not surprising, as it wasn't claimed to be fixed. |
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--Mark M
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George P
Groupie Joined: 29 Jan 2017 Location: Big Horn, WY Status: Offline Points: 45 |
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TangoCharlie
Newbie Joined: 31 May 2016 Location: KISP Status: Offline Points: 17 |
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We had a dual install of the IFD540 upgraded recently. One unit fine, other bricked. We have our replacement unit now, and were told the reason for the brick is a mystery. It seems if you're going to bill someone for it, you'd need to know the reason the update failed. Anyway, from a business perspective, the red print does sound a bit daunting. Lots of avenues to lose $1200. |
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--Mark M
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ddgates
Senior Member Joined: 12 Aug 2011 Location: Deer Valley Status: Offline Points: 1100 |
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Not sure why they don't want business.... |
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David Gates
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ddgates
Senior Member Joined: 12 Aug 2011 Location: Deer Valley Status: Offline Points: 1100 |
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Perhaps I am a pain, but I stayed with it regarding the original shop who did the install. We reached this agreement: If tech bricks unit because didn't follow bulletin, and Avidyne charges, shop pays. If unit bricks without the above, I pay (which means I duke it out with Avidyne). Both units did fine. And, unbelievably, they charged me 1.5 hours to update 2 units. I understand the purpose of all of the "if...then $1200" statements in the install bulletin, but from a strategic point of view, Avi didn't do anything to solidify its dealer network, and this may amount to another lesson learned. At least I hope so. Edited by ddgates - 14 Apr 2017 at 9:10pm |
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David Gates
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Craig767
Groupie Joined: 17 Dec 2014 Location: Gainesville, FL Status: Offline Points: 98 |
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Talked with a authorised Avidyne avionics shop near me. They have done 5 or 6 10.2 upgrades, all successful except one. The one they followed the instructions carefully but still had a bricked unit. They called Avidyne who promptly exchanged the unit for no charge. From what they say some units have a problem with memory issue that will fail the upgrade.
This shop said would be glad to do the upgrade my 540 for about 2hrs of labor, also warned me to allow some extra days in case my unit has the memory problem.
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Froethel
Groupie Joined: 02 Apr 2016 Location: Selden, NY Status: Offline Points: 54 |
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I'm in the same boat as last week I brought my c182 to Islip Avionics that I had previously called and asked if they were able to install 10.2. They said they were but when my plane arrived they told me they have had a few problems and are no longer doing the install until they can resolve their problems with Avidyne. Now looking for another avionics shop near me with some experience. Any suggestions....in based at Brookhaven airport ...HWV.
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Frank
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pburger
Senior Member Joined: 26 Dec 2013 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 406 |
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I've called my avionics shop twice. They are a registered Avidyne dealer. Both times they said they wanted to discuss the update with Avidyne and they would call me back. They didn't call back either time. I contacted Avidyne and my A&P. It looks like my A&P will be doing the update.
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ddgates
Senior Member Joined: 12 Aug 2011 Location: Deer Valley Status: Offline Points: 1100 |
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Update: been a month, but by working cooperatively through the issues, my IFDs were successfully updated. No bricks, the sky didn't fall, and all is working as it should. Also updated Aspens and MLB100, so everything is st most recent update level. Shop is discussing their issues with Avidyne with the goal of normalizing a strained relationship and keeping the shop as a dealer.
Total charge for all of this: 4.5 hours. 10.2 is a major step forward. Now just waiting for TAS-A. |
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David Gates
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Mooney_Dave
Newbie Joined: 07 Apr 2015 Location: Prescott, AZ Status: Offline Points: 5 |
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I just had my 540/440 updated to 10.2 at Chandler Avionics at KCHD (PHX area). I called Tuesday and went in Thursday at 0900. Out by 1300 with both units successfully updated from 10.1.1.0 to 10.2. Very knowledgeable techs and easy to deal with. I was their second update customer and they've had no problems so far with updates.
Install time per unit depends on your current software version. The newest version prior to 10.2 was 10.1.1.0 and that is directly upgraded to 10.2. Older versions may need to be upgraded to an intermediate version before 10.2 can be installed, so figure the possibility of additional time/cost per unit. I brought a power supply along and they were able to do one in the plane and one on the bench, which shaved a little time off the whole process. The shop was comfortable doing it with the power supply since the battery in my plane remains in the circuit in case the power supply fails. There was not even a flicker when the power supply was unplugged and the voltage dropped to battery power only - a necessity for a successful upgrade. As a side note before you upgrade, be sure to use your phone to take pictures of your setup pages if you've made a lot of custom settings since they will be lost after the upgrade. Backing them up and trying to restore them from your stick after 10.2 is installed will brick the unit, according to what the techs at Chandler Avionics have read. I can't confirm that since I wasn't willing to take a chance on a $1200 repair. You will also have to reload the navdata (as previously mentioned in this topic), but the Chartdata was still the current data after my upgrade. The obstacle data is still old and didn't need an update. |
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Dave
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Gring
Senior Member Joined: 30 Dec 2011 Location: Kingston, NY Status: Offline Points: 722 |
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Excellent!!!
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ddgates
Senior Member Joined: 12 Aug 2011 Location: Deer Valley Status: Offline Points: 1100 |
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Success!
It took some discussion, and some compromise agreements about path forward if unit or units got bricked, and the shop took its time working up to the 10.2 update, but I am happy to report that I just received word that both IFD540s were successfully updated. So now we can move on, and hopefully the shop will be retained as an Avidyne dealer. Woo-hoo!
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David Gates
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ddgates
Senior Member Joined: 12 Aug 2011 Location: Deer Valley Status: Offline Points: 1100 |
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PM sent to address noted.
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David Gates
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Randy
Groupie Joined: 20 Jul 2016 Location: KTUS Status: Offline Points: 68 |
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Where is everyone getting the SIL / installation guide / update procedure?
I have searched the Avidyne site, and I am unable to find it. If anyone has a copy, they could send to me, (for archival purposes, of course....) I would appreciate it. Regards, Randy ****************edit***************** Thank you for the replys, and the item requested. Regards, Randy
Edited by Randy - 28 Mar 2017 at 7:04pm |
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Regards,
Randy |
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ddgates
Senior Member Joined: 12 Aug 2011 Location: Deer Valley Status: Offline Points: 1100 |
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1 in 3?
Yikes. A failure rate that high would argue against the failure mode being noncompliance with the SB.
Edited by ddgates - 27 Mar 2017 at 7:20pm |
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David Gates
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centerforcekid
Newbie Joined: 10 Feb 2016 Location: KPRC Status: Offline Points: 21 |
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Hello, I had the update done on our Seneca N54UT, but the unit would not update.
Ended up sending the unit back to Avidyne - on a Quarantine RMA. I have been told thank so far they are getting about 1 failure for every 3 units they update. However, to be fair, we were all early adopters up here so there may be some hardware issues.... I was told that Christina IS AWESOME to work with and very helpful. I hope to get the unit back soon. Pat.
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Seneca II
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ddgates
Senior Member Joined: 12 Aug 2011 Location: Deer Valley Status: Offline Points: 1100 |
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Had a good discussion with shop manager/owner.
His comment: The issue I have is the $1,200.00 per unit should the software fail. If it failed who would be responsible? To me it just sets up a conflict between the owner and the shop doing the work. Garmin doesn’t do that, Collins doesn’t do that, no other Avionics OEM does. Doesn't seem unreasonable to me. If the update fails, that is one thing, shouldn't be on the shop, but also shouldn't require RMA and warranty-type service. If the unit bricks for reasons other than lack of diligence on the tech's part (not following the instructions), that will require RMA but shouldn't be on the shop's dime (that shouldn't happen, and I guess would be between me and Avidyne). So all that leaves is poor performance on the shop's part, and in that regard I can see why Avidyne would be stringent about cost. So it gets done tomorrow. Hopefully, no issues. I must say that Avidyne is doing what it can to support. |
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David Gates
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ddgates
Senior Member Joined: 12 Aug 2011 Location: Deer Valley Status: Offline Points: 1100 |
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I agree with all that was said above.
The $1200 "risk" is absolutely a disincentive for shops to service Avidyne equipment, which doesn't portend well for the future. How mant brick episodes have there been? Is the $1200 written in stone or is that for out of warranty units? Edited by ddgates - 26 Mar 2017 at 11:20am |
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David Gates
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brou0040
Senior Member Joined: 13 Dec 2012 Location: KIYK Status: Offline Points: 720 |
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It would be nice to know how many units have been updated and how many have bricked. It sounds like if you follow the instructions, this is pretty easy. The $1200 liability may be more for the shops than for IA assisted owner upgrades - I know I have more interest in not bricking my unit than my avionics shop does. The fact is that most shops don't sell a whole lot of Avidyne, but do sell a whole lot of Garmin and as far as they are concerned, they are fine with sticking to Garmin. The learning curve for them to be a knowledgeable Avidyne shop and do software upgrades with several $1200 liabilities, just isn't very appealing.
After the previous software upgrade where reloading configurations saved from the version before the upgrade caused issues, Avidyne stated they learned that lesson and would prevent that from happening during future upgrades. Why so many $1200 brick opportunities? Pretty much all modern electronics have ways to fall back in case there is an issue. I can see the software getting corrupted if power is lost during the upgrade, but why isn't there a way to recover in the field? Could you imagine if Microsoft/Apple/Google operated this way?
Edited by brou0040 - 26 Mar 2017 at 9:51am |
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MarkZ
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The directions are real easy to follow and I had no problem shutting everything down and using ship's power to mak it go.
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PA20Pacer
Senior Member Joined: 07 Mar 2012 Location: Illinois (LL22) Status: Offline Points: 161 |
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I suspect that the reason for all of the $1200 messages in the service bulletin is to get people to actually read and pay attention to the very detailed and precise instructions for performing the update. This is just speculation, but it may be that with past updates they had problems with shops breezing through the instructions, resulting in excessive technical support costs and return trips to the factory. It would be interesting to hear whether anyone has actually had a problem with the upgrade and been charged the $1200.
Regards, Bob Siegfried, II
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Bob Siegfried, II
Brookeridge Airpark (LL22) Downers Grove, IL |
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KLRDMD
Newbie Joined: 22 Sep 2016 Location: 57AZ Status: Offline Points: 7 |
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The avionics shop at AVQ "can't get to it for a few weeks."
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Ken Reed |
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bobcain
Newbie Joined: 26 Aug 2010 Location: 7K8 Status: Offline Points: 37 |
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You have it figured. It IS a big nothing. I would bet with a call to support you will get the update and be able to do your own. I did mine and had small issue (small because it didn't brick) and support walked me out of it and life was good.
These days, a shop that won't grab something like this and go with it should probably be doing less technically demanding work across the board. |
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ddgates
Senior Member Joined: 12 Aug 2011 Location: Deer Valley Status: Offline Points: 1100 |
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Ken:
You know, I just line by line analyzed this update procedure. My conclusion = It is a big nothing. I am not sure why Avidyne chose to include the "if this, then $1200" messages all over the place; that decision is causing me a large amount of grief when the bulk of this is lack of understanding. As I look at this, the bulk of this is in preparation. Once those issues are addressed, I believe the actual update is _zip_. In the unlikely circumstance where it fails, or bricks, it goes back to Avidyne. I have spent more hours than is reasonable in trying to get this upgrade done. Such a waste of angst. My backup is KAVQ if all else fails. David
Edited by ddgates - 25 Mar 2017 at 8:36pm |
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David Gates
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KLRDMD
Newbie Joined: 22 Sep 2016 Location: 57AZ Status: Offline Points: 7 |
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My 440 took 107 minutes and my 540 took 101 minutes. 15 minutes after you start the update you have to push a button, then an hour later push a few more buttons. It is pretty simple if you follow the instructions exactly. No one needs to be sitting there looking at the screen for 3+ hours.
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Ken Reed |
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Craig767
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My avionics guy told me to plan on 3 to 4hrs for the 10.2 upgrade.
Don't most of IFD owners feel that $1200 is very excessive for doing a upgrade of the software that goes bad. Could do everything right per the instructions and something still goes wrong= $1200. Think if it is that critical that we should be able to ship unit back to Avidyne and let them do the update.
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oskrypuch
Senior Member Joined: 09 Nov 2012 Location: CYFD Status: Offline Points: 3058 |
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Very cheesy.
Off with their heads.
* Orest |
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ddgates
Senior Member Joined: 12 Aug 2011 Location: Deer Valley Status: Offline Points: 1100 |
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Back to the original topic.
Spoke with shop in AZ yesterday; was told the shop ownership has declined to do the 10.2 update because of the $1200 "liability". Going to speak with their owner Monday. It seems this shop really doesn't want to do Avidyne so not much leverage, but I will post their name here and on the Beech board. In my opinion, they got the commission on the install of all my Avidyne products, sold me some others, and are getting their shop rate on all the panel updates which have been done to my Bonanza. That creates some sort of relationship. What does Avi Live think?
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David Gates
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Old Bob Siegfried
Newbie Joined: 25 Feb 2015 Location: Illinois Status: Offline Points: 19 |
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Good Morning AzAv8r,
Actually, I guess I do have something close to a Cessna. My V35B was built by Beechcraft before the two companies were combined. I did not use a battery maintainer. I purchased the same model power supply that is used by my Avonics shop. They have a half dozen or so of them. That shop is JA Air at Aurora, Illinois. What is good enough for them seems reasonable for me! <G> As I said before, Beech has changed it's mind over the years as to how their auxiliary power plug feeds into the system. Thank you for the comment. While I will check with JA before I do it, my thought is to apply the power supply direct to the battery so it will be in the circuit in the event of a line power failure to the Power Supply. If my memory serves me correctly, several of my earlier Bonanzas had their external power plugs wired that way. However, would not be the first time I have been wrong. Happy Skies, Old Bob
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Old Bob
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AzAv8r
Senior Member Joined: 06 Dec 2011 Location: Arizona Status: Offline Points: 154 |
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Bob, you must have a Cessna. The GPU power contactor powers up the bus as soon as you apply power to the connnector, which means the battery is out of the circuit. The POH says to turn on the master first so the battery is in the circuit. The standard Cessna config disables the avionics when the GPU contactor closes, but this is often replaced with a separate avionics master.
If you use a typical automotive battery charger (even if sold as a 24 V aircraft charger) without a battery, you might break something with the AC current coming off the transformer. (Ask me how I know. Oops). Get a battery in the circuit, using the aircraft battery or an external battery (I keep my last- removed battery for this purpose.) I was tempted to use my battery tender, but there are appropriate warnings against that. The tender supplies maybe 2.5 amps, the total draw for the 2.5 hours our upgrade took was 6-7 amps. (Other things were drawing current besides the IFD, and most of the P&B breakers are not pullable.) |
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Old Bob Siegfried
Newbie Joined: 25 Feb 2015 Location: Illinois Status: Offline Points: 19 |
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It seems there are alternatives for back up power!
I do not have a pick up truck and both of my automobiles use twelve volt power. <G> The Bonanza is twenty-eight volt. My ground power unit will supply 28 or 14 volts. Guess I will just hook the ground power unit to the ship's battery next time rather than hooking it up to the ground power receptacle. Sure would hate to get a $1200 power loss during an update process! Don't know why, but Beech has changed their mind as the years go by as to whether or not the battery is in the circuit with ground power hooked up. Happy Skies, Old Bob |
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Old Bob
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