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Garmin G5 and IFD 540

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chflyer View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chflyer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Garmin G5 and IFD 540
    Posted: 09 Aug 2023 at 11:04am
I have a G5/GMU11/GAD29B connected to my IFD540 via Arinc 429 and RS232 (G5 input only, no output to IFD).

I also have a Sandel SN3500 with all the associated boxes for heading (KMT112/KG102A/MD26-28). The SN3500 currently provided heading to the IFD via Arinc 429 and to my WX-500 via XYZ.

I now plan to replace my Stec30 a/p with a GFC500 and the SN3500/G5 no longer mix well so I'll replace the SN3500 (and all associated boxes) with a 2nd G5 at the same time.

This raises questions about how to source heading to the WX-500. The IFD will need to get its heading from the G5/GMU11/GAD29B rather than the SN3500. I don't see any problem with that.

I'm presently having a conversation with Avidyne tech support about whether the IFD will relay the heading information that it receives over Arinc 429 to the WX-500 on a RS232 output port. I'm being told that the answer is that the IFD DOES NOT output heading information to the WX-500 over RS232.

However people on the Beechtalk forum say that this is operational and works well with a GNS unit rather than IFD. So is the IFD not really plug-compatible with the GNS530 in this case?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ChainSaw Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 May 2019 at 11:33am
TogaDriver, Congrats with the successful IFD440-Gad29b-G5 integration. Please let us know who  did your install . I have  an IFD 440 and desire to replace my vacuum  DG with the G5 HSI to drive hdg for the Century 21 AP.  Avionics support at my home field is not available. II would fly to the experienced installer or pay airfare and hotel for a few days for that installer to travel to my location. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote migs Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Apr 2019 at 12:23pm
Originally posted by TogaDriver TogaDriver wrote:

If you put the KFC-150 into NAV or APR mode it uses the analog wiring direct from the IFD (P1001 Connector as per Figure D-26 IFD install manual) to drive the autopilot.

If you tune a VOR on the IFD, set the IFD to VLOC mode, select a radial in the G5 HSI, can you set the autopilot in NAV mode? Does it track the radial?

In our installation the IFD does not provide the analog course deviation signal to the autopilot (P1001 connector) when the IFD is in VLOC and tuned to a VOR. It does work when tuned to an ILS.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TogaDriver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Apr 2019 at 7:01pm
We have a G5 HSI, GAD29B, IFD 440, and KFC-150.  You must retain the KI-256 vacuum A/I for the KFC-150.  The G5 HSI replaces the KI525A HSI and drives the KFC-150 in HDG mode only.

The KFC-150 will follow the G5 HDG bug or, if the G5 is set to GPSS mode, the KFC-150 will follow the GPS ARINC data supplied by the IFD when on HDG mode.

If you put the KFC-150 into NAV or APR mode it uses the analog wiring direct from the IFD (P1001 Connector as per Figure D-26 IFD install manual) to drive the autopilot.

It works very well and was not much more than the cost to overhaul the KI-525A/KG-102 combo that was failing.



Edited by TogaDriver - 19 Apr 2019 at 7:03pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote teeth6 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Apr 2019 at 5:59pm
From what I’m told the GAD 29B connects the G5 to the KFC 150 but the G5 only supports heading and course error, mimicking the KI HSI.  G5 is not emulating pitch and roll input for KFC150 so saying the G5 supports the KFC 150 is only partially true from what I’ve been told. Plus in my plane, I’d have to maintain the vacuum driven AI anyway.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Apr 2019 at 9:18pm
Predicting the future is hard work.  I think a lot of people were surprised when Garmin announced the GAD 29B.  It connects the G5 to the common Century, BK, and S-TEC autopilots.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote teeth6 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Apr 2019 at 8:31pm
Interesting.  This is what I was told by an avionics tech:  ”I would not expect to see autopilot interfaces on the G5 anytime for any analog autopilot (such as a KFC150) in the near futire.”
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Apr 2019 at 8:18pm
The KFC 150 is supported with the G5 using the GAD 29B adapter.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote teeth6 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Apr 2019 at 8:12pm
It may be different with your autopilot but I have a King autopilot also (KFC 150) and when I looked into getting a G5, I was told that my autopilot wasn’t compatible. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote migs Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Apr 2019 at 11:04am
We have two IFD540 units with a G5 HSI and a Bendix/King KAP140 two-axis autopilot with altitude pre-select. Most functions work, but the autopilot cannot track a VOR course. It seems that Avidyne may not be aware of this issue, so I will give a little description.

Before we installed the G5 we used to have a Bendix/King KI-525A HSI. We replaced it with a G5, which comes with the GAD29A. All other autopilot modes work well: heading mode, GPSS roll steering, NAV mode on GPS courses, NAV mode on GPS OBS mode, APR mode on ILS (with both LOC and GS tracking), REV mode for the LOC BC, APR mode on GPS (both lateral modes and modes with vertical guidance, such as LPV with GP tracking). The only mode that does not work is NAV mode tracking a VOR course. Note that the G5 displays the selected VOR course and the course deviation correctly, but the autopilot is not receiving the course deviation signal. My understanding of the problem is that IFD is the one responsible for computing the course deviation and sending it to the autopilot. The IFD expects to receive the course selection as an analog signal from the HSI (that's how the KI-525A worked), but the G5 does not provide such signal. The course selection is sent to the IFD digitally on the ARINC 429 bus, but the IFD does not use it.

I am curious to hear if anybody else is experiencing a similar issue, and what Avidyne knows/thinks of it.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Mar 2019 at 4:33pm
We have a Cessna with an IFD 540 and a KI 209A.  I'm considering replacing the AI and DG and the G5 is an obvious choice.  However the G5 installation manual says "THIS STC DOES NOT APPROVE A CDI INTERFACED WITH THE SAME NAVIGATOR AS THE G5.  REMOVE ANY EXISTING CDI INTERFACED WITH THIS NAVIGATOR."

The KI 209A is installed as part of the Avidyne STC.  Do we really have to remove it if we install a G5?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bob H Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Oct 2018 at 9:12am
Originally posted by chflyer chflyer wrote:

What document are you quoting, Bob? I am looking at the very latest version of the G5 Part 23 AML STC IM 190-01112-10 Rev 14, dated July 2018, and there is no section 1.7.1.3, only 1.7.1.1 and 1.7.1.2 on p21 and then section 2 on p22.

It looks like that restriction has been removed, which would be necessary for consistency with the approved ADI configuration in section 5.12 mentioned above which I believe was added in Rev 12.
An older version before the HSI was added to the STC, Jan 2017, Rev 4, when my install was done.  Time for a review of additional options.  Glad we talked!  Sorry I can't help with the updated options.
Bob
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chflyer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Oct 2018 at 1:57am
What document are you quoting, Bob? I am looking at the very latest version of the G5 Part 23 AML STC IM 190-01112-10 Rev 14, dated July 2018, and there is no section 1.7.1.3, only 1.7.1.1 and 1.7.1.2 on p21 and then section 2 on p22.

It looks like that restriction has been removed, which would be necessary for consistency with the approved ADI configuration in section 5.12 mentioned above which I believe was added in Rev 12.


Edited by chflyer - 15 Oct 2018 at 2:01am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bob H Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Oct 2018 at 7:47pm
Originally posted by chflyer chflyer wrote:

Bob, I assume that you mean the G5 receives data from the IFD via the RS-232 GPS connection. I'm guessing that most (all?) IFD installations with the G5 use this. Per the Garmin G5 IM, this is a one-way data flow and the wiring details are in section 5.4 of the G5 IM.

I'm not 100% certain, but I don't think any device outputs baro-altitude across RS-232, and the standard ADC's use ARINC 429 for this.

However, the G5 AI can output data on the CAN bus to another Garmin device such as the GAD29, and the GAD29 supports ARINC 429. There is a diagram in the G5 IM section 5.12 showing a single G5 ADI (whatever that is) with connection to a GPS/VHF navigator. This diagram shows ARINC 429 data output from the G5 AI flowing via CAN bus to GAD29 and then ARINC 429 to the 430W/530W. I believe this would get baro-altitude from the G5 to the IFD, and for less cost than an ADC.

Since AviTJ mentioned that the IFD does accept the 429 inputs from a GAD42 (assumed in a config with G5 HSI), I would expect that this would also work. But I would love to hear if someone has done it. 
Yes, IFD feeds RS-232 GPS data to the G5.
My G5 is installed in a certificated aricraft which required installation in accordance with Garmin's Part 23 AML STC.  That STC includes the below information.  I do not know what is allowed for non-certificated aircraft.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chflyer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Oct 2018 at 12:05pm
Bob, I assume that you mean the G5 receives data from the IFD via the RS-232 GPS connection. I'm guessing that most (all?) IFD installations with the G5 use this. Per the Garmin G5 IM, this is a one-way data flow and the wiring details are in section 5.4 of the G5 IM. 

I'm not 100% certain, but I don't think any device outputs baro-altitude across RS-232, and the standard ADC's use ARINC 429 for this.

However, the G5 AI can output data on the CAN bus to another Garmin device such as the GAD29, and the GAD29 supports ARINC 429. There is a diagram in the G5 IM section 5.12 showing a single G5 ADI (whatever that is) with connection to a GPS/VHF navigator. This diagram shows ARINC 429 data output from the G5 AI flowing via CAN bus to GAD29 and then ARINC 429 to the 430W/530W. I believe this would get baro-altitude from the G5 to the IFD, and for less cost than an ADC.

Since AviTJ mentioned that the IFD does accept the 429 inputs from a GAD42 (assumed in a config with G5 HSI), I would expect that this would also work. But I would love to hear if someone has done it. 


Edited by chflyer - 14 Oct 2018 at 12:12pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bob H Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Oct 2018 at 10:37pm
G5 AI works great with the IFD.  It does not ouput any Baro data.
Bob
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote paulr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Oct 2018 at 12:20pm
I'd like to know this too-- considering adding an ADC along with the G5 or Aspen units but would love to skip it if possible.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rpostmo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Oct 2018 at 6:12pm
I can't answer that.  My baro data is supplied by a Shadin Digidata to the IFD.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chflyer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Oct 2018 at 1:17pm
Including providing ADC info such as baro-altitude to the IFD via Arinc? I can‘t find any details of the Arinc data output by the G5 nor if that is accepted by the IFD (IM only lists specific ADC devices, and of course the G5 is not one of them).

Edited by chflyer - 06 Oct 2018 at 1:18pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rpostmo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Oct 2018 at 8:58pm
Yes.  IFD-540 with G5 AI.  It works flawlessly.
If the King HSI fails, it will be replaced by a G5 HSI.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chflyer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Oct 2018 at 9:50pm
Has anyone installed a single G5 as AI with an IFD? I‘m not sure this config is supported, but chapter 5.12 of the G5 IM shows how this would/could work. BTW, anyone know what Garmin means by ADI? I can‘t find any definition of this acronym. It would need an GAD29 (don‘t need 29B if no a/p interface), but would provide ADC data like baro-alt to the IFD via ARINC 429.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Quilpie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Sep 2018 at 3:36pm
Originally posted by Slatye Slatye wrote:

I'm just about to connect a dual G5 (plus GMU-11 and GAD-29B) setup to an IFD540, but would someone mind checking the connections/settings for me? Other hardware in the system is a Bendix-King KT74 transponder, STEC 50 autopilot, and Garmin GI-106A nav indicator. What I've gathered from reading the installation manuals is:

Did you get an answer to this?

I have installed a G5 with twin IFD440s, a GAD29B, GMU-11 magnometer, STEC-50 A/P and a ki206 indicator. I have the no2 IFD440 connected to the KI206 and was hoping to connect no1 IFD440 to the G5 and use the G5s functionality/flight director to give me a second CDI/glide slope but unfortunately it’s not working. Clearly something hasn’t been installed correctly but I don’t know what. The answer to your question will lie,ly be the answer to mine.

Also is there an easy way to determine if gpss steering is working on my STEC-50?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary L Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jul 2018 at 5:03pm
I see that the G-5 now has s/w version 5.30 available.  Any pireps on it?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote khuffine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Apr 2018 at 11:33pm
Bearing pointer works only with the number one navigator. Select. Vor and it is the blue pointer on hsi.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bcool Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Apr 2018 at 12:19am
For those of you with the G5 HSI, can you use the IFD540's VOR signal for a bearing pointer? Or, do you have to connect to a 2nd radio to get that?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cruiser Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Mar 2018 at 6:53pm
Originally posted by khuffine khuffine wrote:

Order a deklin aiu 900 for the go between the g5 and autopilot. Does a great job with gad29 b

how do you get one of those approved for certified aircraft?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Slatye Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Mar 2018 at 5:39am
I'm just about to connect a dual G5 (plus GMU-11 and GAD-29B) setup to an IFD540, but would someone mind checking the connections/settings for me? Other hardware in the system is a Bendix-King KT74 transponder, STEC 50 autopilot, and Garmin GI-106A nav indicator. What I've gathered from reading the installation manuals is:

IFD540 settings for the G5s:
RS-232 channel 1 output: MapMX format, connects to both G5s to provide GPS data (I’ll also have a backup GA35 antenna just for the G5s)
RS-232 channel 1 input: disabled
GPS ARINC 429 output: low speed, GAMA 429 format (connects to GAD-29B)
VOR/ILS ARINC 429 output: low speed (connects to GAD-29B)
GPS ARINC 429 input 1: low speed, GAD 42 format (connects to GAD-29B)
SDI: LNAV 1
VNAV: Enable Labels

IFD540 settings for the KT-74:
RS-232 channel 2 output: ADS-B (Avi) format (connects to KT-74 directly)

IFD540 settings for the GI-106A:
Direct connection from dedicated IFD540 ports, no need to configure any I/O

Is that right?

Two futher questions:

(1) Do I need to connect the IFD540 VOR/ILS ARINC429 input to the GAD-29B too? The IFD540 manual shows connections for the Aspen systems, and their airdata output only goes to the GPS ARINC 429 input section. However, the G5 install manual shows the ARINC 429 connection going to both GPS and VOR/ILS sections on a GNS-530W.

(2) Is there any way to have the G5 output its altitude data to the KT-74? I’ve got an altitude encoder, but if I can dump that and rely on the G5’s internal encoder then that saves weight and wiring, as well as ensuring that the G5 and the KT-74 agree.


Thanks for any help!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote khuffine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Mar 2018 at 10:43pm
Order a deklin aiu 900 for the go between the g5 and autopilot. Does a great job with gad29 b
Khuffine
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AviTJ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Feb 2018 at 10:53am
The IFD does work with the G5.  Truth be told, we already accept all of the 429 labels via the GAD42 configuration (the ability the GNS update gives).  The time consuming part of this is getting it added to our installation manual, which requires amending the STC.  As others have mentioned there are quite a few of these flying around already.  Showing the IFD vs GNS as "like equipment" shouldn't be difficult for 337 purposes.  

We can't make any promises about the G brand autopilot integration with G5's yet.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Flying_Monkey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Feb 2018 at 9:38pm
Let me guess..still no update...  (sigh)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote compasst Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Feb 2018 at 10:52am
Originally posted by compasst compasst wrote:

Originally posted by Gring Gring wrote:

Do you know if Garmin is addressing the need for dual ARINC429 ports on the G5 side, or the GNS530/430 side?  If the latter, then I would think Avidyne will need to make the corresponding change.

Last I heard from Garmin, the ARINC429 port consolidation was being done with software update for the GNS 430/530 and was to be completed mid-December. I've not been able to get confirmation of that. It was being done because some folks use one of these ports for other inputs from other devices.

It was not clear if the G5 would also be changed. As of yesterday, G5 version 5.0 is still current from mid-December and my G5s still work fine with my IFD 540.

Per email from Garmin tech yesterday - the new software for GNS 5xx is version 5.4. This new software will not be required for G5 units to work properly. And, the G5 software will not be changed to require this GNS 5xx software change, so the G5 will still work with all its features when connected to IFD units. FYI, G5 software was just updated to v5.1.

It appears it was fix in version 5.4 in the GNS 5XX software. You will need to go to a Garmin Dealer for the sw upgrade.

 

GNS 400W/500W Series Main Software v5.40 includes the following:

• Added support for GFC 500

• Added ARINC 429 input for G5

• Fixed issue where FIS-B METARs and TAFs may not be displayed if too many are received

• Fixed issue related to importing/export flight plans with IAF waypoints and procedure transition waypoints


(and)

 The fix is in the GNS 5.4 software. The G5 will not require a software upgrade but I still suggest upgrading it to sw 5.1.


The STC'd G5 software posted on Garmin site is still on 5.0. The fellow who wrote to me above is in the experimental wing, so their software might well be at v5.1


 I also learned that having the Flight Director bars shown on G5 without benefit of an installed autopilot is NOT possible because the G5 gets that signal from a component of the compatible autopilot or from a separate box that could be installed. I'm still going to hope that the G500 autopilot gets an STC for Cessna Cardinal airplanes.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote compasst Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Feb 2018 at 10:42am
Originally posted by compasst compasst wrote:

I do not yet know if a GAD 29 (pre-Dec 2017 production) can be updated to a GAD 29B. Garmin aviation tech support is closed today - Feb 2 - for training. I'll post an update once I find out.

I have answers from Garmin - the GAD 29 is different internally from the GAD 29B. Therefore, a GAD 29 cannot be upgraded to a GAD 29B by software.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jwjenks Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Feb 2018 at 9:51am
Likewise.  My G5 works perfectly with my 550.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote compasst Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Feb 2018 at 6:27am
Originally posted by Gring Gring wrote:

Do you know if Garmin is addressing the need for dual ARINC429 ports on the G5 side, or the GNS530/430 side?  If the latter, then I would think Avidyne will need to make the corresponding change.

Last I heard from Garmin, the ARINC429 port consolidation was being done with software update for the GNS 430/530 and was to be completed mid-December. I've not been able to get confirmation of that. It was being done because some folks use one of these ports for other inputs from other devices.

It was not clear if the G5 would also be changed. As of yesterday, G5 version 5.0 is still current from mid-December and my G5s still work fine with my IFD 540.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oskrypuch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Feb 2018 at 6:24pm
Originally posted by dwbarnett dwbarnett wrote:

Hmm, based on the info I’m reading, doesn’t look like an interface for my IFD 440 and a G5 will be here any time ... 

Hmm, based on Gring's and compasst posts, it appears that these are indeed working together now.

But personally I think an ASPEN 1000 Pro is a better option than twin G5's anyway, and it is not much more.

* Orest

 




Edited by oskrypuch - 08 Feb 2018 at 10:51am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chflyer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Feb 2018 at 5:56pm
Originally posted by Catani Catani wrote:

Originally posted by oskrypuch oskrypuch wrote:

Originally posted by Catani Catani wrote:

Just to confirm, you are saying that the IFD 440/540 does not work (yet) with the G500, the GDL-69A, nor the GDL-88?  And to further confirm, you are also saying that (unlike the IFDs) a 430/530 will work just fine with those Garmin products?
No, not confirming anything about either, just recalling from threads here, I don't have any of those products so no first hand information. For definitive information call tech support.

OK, my question remains unanswered then.  Unless I hear otherwise, I tentatively conclude the 430/530 can be swapped out with an IFD 440/540, and everything that worked with the 430/530 will work with the IFD 440/540, apart from the items mentioned by Gring.

Just to be clear, I don't believe Avidyne has advertised that the IFD 440/540 is compatible with any other upgrade you might install in your panel at the same time you swap out the 430/530.  The plug 'n play claim says only that the IFD is compatible with equipment the 430/530 is compatible with - which might now need a temporary asterisk given Gring's info until the IFDs can catch up to the modifications recently made to the 430/530 software.  I suppose there will always be a lag between Garmin's 430/530 software upgrades, and the corresponding ones for the IFDs.

Not related to the G5, but you might want to check the BeechTalk forum thread regarding a fellow who had issues pulling a G* 530W and plugging an IFD540 in conjunction with an Aspen 1000 Pro & G* GTX345. A bit specific to the 345, but nonetheless shows how important it is to not make assumptions.


Vince
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dwbarnett Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Feb 2018 at 5:46pm
Hmm, based on the info I’m reading, doesn’t look like an interface for my IFD 440 and a G5 will be here any time
soon, if ever. I would really like to get rid of my analog stuff, but I like the GPSS, especially in a heavy workload IFR environment. I love my 440, but based on the track record of releases for software upgrades, don’t see
a resolution anytime soon. Might have to go to Plan B, look at the Aspen setup. Concerned though, as I have heard
Aspen is struggling in the market somewhat Optimally for me would be dual G5 with GPSS, and ESI500 for backup

Hoping Avidyne can get things squared away soon.
Best,
David
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gring Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Feb 2018 at 6:39pm
Originally posted by compasst compasst wrote:

Everything displays on a dual G5 setup that still retains a vacuum AI, such as needed for a Century III autopilot. As noted in another message above, Garmin is combining 429 ports to fix a problem with their GNS 530w talking to the G5. I witnessed this problem in an aircraft I was test flying following a dual G5 install - the G5 did NOT display the glideSLOPE on ILS but did display the glidePATH on LPV approachs. The IFD 540 in two other installs that I have flown did correctly communicate with the dual G5 installs in those planes. Those installs used the 429 configurations (two channels) shown in the G5 STC installation docs version 11 dated Dec 2017. In order for vertical guidance from the IFD to show on the G5, the setting for VNAV must be on ENABLE LABELS. This particular setting is VNAV ENABLED in the GNS 530 and G5 installation manuals.

Do you know if Garmin is addressing the need for dual ARINC429 ports on the G5 side, or the GNS530/430 side?  If the latter, then I would think Avidyne will need to make the corresponding change.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Catani Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Feb 2018 at 6:28pm
Originally posted by oskrypuch oskrypuch wrote:

Originally posted by Catani Catani wrote:

Just to confirm, you are saying that the IFD 440/540 does not work (yet) with the G500, the GDL-69A, nor the GDL-88?  And to further confirm, you are also saying that (unlike the IFDs) a 430/530 will work just fine with those Garmin products?
No, not confirming anything about either, just recalling from threads here, I don't have any of those products so no first hand information. For definitive information call tech support.

OK, my question remains unanswered then.  Unless I hear otherwise, I tentatively conclude the 430/530 can be swapped out with an IFD 440/540, and everything that worked with the 430/530 will work with the IFD 440/540, apart from the items mentioned by Gring.

Just to be clear, I don't believe Avidyne has advertised that the IFD 440/540 is compatible with any other upgrade you might install in your panel at the same time you swap out the 430/530.  The plug 'n play claim says only that the IFD is compatible with equipment the 430/530 is compatible with - which might now need a temporary asterisk given Gring's info until the IFDs can catch up to the modifications recently made to the 430/530 software.  I suppose there will always be a lag between Garmin's 430/530 software upgrades, and the corresponding ones for the IFDs.


Edited by Catani - 02 Feb 2018 at 6:32pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote arkvet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Feb 2018 at 5:26pm
Originally posted by compasst compasst wrote:


From the research I've done and from talking with both Avidyne and Garmin knowledgeable folks, here's what I understand.

The GMU 11 provides remote magnetic information to the G5s and to the IFD. All three show mag heading.

The GAD 29 provides the ARINC 429 conduit for navigation information (such as course deviation) between the IFD, the G5s, and to Garmin autopilots, and RS232 provides the one-way communications from the IFD to the G5s for things like GPS signal and track, eliminating the need to use the G5 internal GPS or adding external antennae for the G5s. By the way, if you don't use the IFD for GPS signal to the G5s, Garmin suggests first trying the G5 on its internal GPS and antenna before adding external antenna.

The GAD 29B does the same thing as the GAD 29 above, adding support for many 3rd party autopilots. 

Everything displays on a dual G5 setup that still retains a vacuum AI, such as needed for a Century III autopilot. As noted in another message above, Garmin is combining 429 ports to fix a problem with their GNS 530w talking to the G5. I witnessed this problem in an aircraft I was test flying following a dual G5 install - the G5 did NOT display the glideSLOPE on ILS but did display the glidePATH on LPV approachs. The IFD 540 in two other installs that I have flown did correctly communicate with the dual G5 installs in those planes. Those installs used the 429 configurations (two channels) shown in the G5 STC installation docs version 11 dated Dec 2017. In order for vertical guidance from the IFD to show on the G5, the setting for VNAV must be on ENABLE LABELS. This particular setting is VNAV ENABLED in the GNS 530 and G5 installation manuals. 

I do not yet know if a GAD 29 (pre-Dec 2017 production) can be updated to a GAD 29B. Garmin aviation tech support is closed today - Feb 2 - for training. I'll post an update once I find out.




Thanks so much.  After having read many many discussions on the topic this more concisely answers my questions than anything I've ran across.  Exactly what I was looking for.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gring Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Feb 2018 at 1:11pm
Well, yes, obviously.  The GFC500 requires the installation of the G5 and won't even work with a G500 PFD
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote compasst Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Feb 2018 at 12:29pm
Originally posted by Gring Gring wrote:

Arkvet - The G5 available for certified aircraft will not provide attitude information to an autopilot and will not provide flight director information.


The above is true at this time for non-Garmin autopilots.

From the Garmin 500 autopilot product info on Garmin website - 

  • Leverages certificated G5 electronic flight instrument1 for primary attitude reference — plus input and display of altitude preselect, heading, vertical speed, airspeed target and flight director cues
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote compasst Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Feb 2018 at 12:20pm
Originally posted by arkvet arkvet wrote:

So lets assume I did the dual G5 install which included the GAD29b and GMU-11.  It seems some dual G5 installations have the AI display glide slope / CDI / flight director bars, and some other helpful data that is pretty helpful for IFR approaches.  Is this additional info provided by the IFD via the GAD-29b / GMU-11 or is it dependent on the specific autopilot?  The AP will have to continue to be driven by the vacuum AI but I wonder if that will prohibit the additional info provided on the G5 AI screen.

Just some thoughts. I have a hard time wrapping my head around where all the information comes from.  I actually called garmin tech support today trying to get an answer to that question.  I never could get an answer and to some degree felt like I was annoying them. 

From the research I've done and from talking with both Avidyne and Garmin knowledgeable folks, here's what I understand.

The GMU 11 provides remote magnetic information to the G5s and to the IFD. All three show mag heading.

The GAD 29 provides the ARINC 429 conduit for navigation information (such as course deviation) between the IFD, the G5s, and to Garmin autopilots, and RS232 provides the one-way communications from the IFD to the G5s for things like GPS signal and track, eliminating the need to use the G5 internal GPS or adding external antennae for the G5s. By the way, if you don't use the IFD for GPS signal to the G5s, Garmin suggests first trying the G5 on its internal GPS and antenna before adding external antenna.

The GAD 29B does the same thing as the GAD 29 above, adding support for many 3rd party autopilots. 

Everything displays on a dual G5 setup that still retains a vacuum AI, such as needed for a Century III autopilot. As noted in another message above, Garmin is combining 429 ports to fix a problem with their GNS 530w talking to the G5. I witnessed this problem in an aircraft I was test flying following a dual G5 install - the G5 did NOT display the glideSLOPE on ILS but did display the glidePATH on LPV approachs. The IFD 540 in two other installs that I have flown did correctly communicate with the dual G5 installs in those planes. Those installs used the 429 configurations (two channels) shown in the G5 STC installation docs version 11 dated Dec 2017. In order for vertical guidance from the IFD to show on the G5, the setting for VNAV must be on ENABLE LABELS. This particular setting is VNAV ENABLED in the GNS 530 and G5 installation manuals. 

I do not yet know if a GAD 29 (pre-Dec 2017 production) can be updated to a GAD 29B. Garmin aviation tech support is closed today - Feb 2 - for training. I'll post an update once I find out.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oskrypuch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Feb 2018 at 4:29pm
Originally posted by Catani Catani wrote:

Just to confirm, you are saying that the IFD 440/540 does not work (yet) with the G500, the GDL-69A, nor the GDL-88?  And to further confirm, you are also saying that (unlike the IFDs) a 430/530 will work just fine with those Garmin products?

No, not confirming anything about either, just recalling from threads here, I don't have any of those products so no first hand information. For definitive information call tech support.

From what I've read, the IFDs have always worked with the G500/600 PFD/MFDs, but there are some recent minor issues that a lot of folks are waiting to have fixed. I don't know the details. The GDL-88 is not listed as supported with 10.2. Support was slated for it, but it missed 10.2. The very latest GDL-69A has some sort of issue with the remote control and music selection, AFAIK. The older units do not.

Can't tell you anything about the GNS units.

The point I was making, is twofold. The vast majority of setups work just fine after you slide the unit in and set it up, but you always need to check to be sure. With all the new products coming out, and firmware updates, things can change. Reacting to these with an IFD update can take a while, not only from an engineering standpoint, but also the regulatory framework.

* Orest



Edited by oskrypuch - 01 Feb 2018 at 4:50pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gring Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Feb 2018 at 4:27pm
Arkvet - The G5 available for certified aircraft will not provide attitude information to an autopilot and will not provide flight director information.

Catani - There was an issue with the 10.2.0.0 release that causes red Xs on a G500 at startup.  This was not a problem in prior releases and one can assume it would be fixed in the next release (10.2.1.0?).  Other than that, it was on the initial STC list and works properly.  The Avidyne test Cessna 182 had a G500 the entire time during flight certification testing, I've been in it.

The GDL69 and 69/A will work with the IFD540/550/440, I have one installed in my airplane (replaced the MLB700 a few months ago.)

The later GDL69 and 69/A that provides the newer SXM weather information does not fully work.  I think the weather may work but the satellite radio may not work correctly.

Yes, a Garmin 530//430 (with the proper release software, 5.x I think) will work with G500, GLD69/69A (both versions), and GDL88.


Edited by Gring - 01 Feb 2018 at 4:29pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Catani Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Feb 2018 at 4:02pm
Originally posted by oskrypuch oskrypuch wrote:

Originally posted by Catani Catani wrote:

This may be a dumb question, but are there equipment combinations where a 430 or 530, working and compatible with all existing installed equipment, is plug 'n play replaced by an IFD440 or 540, and the IFD replacement was incompatible with that same installed equipment?  If so, what equipment is compatible with a swapped-out 430/530 but not a swapped-in IFD 440/540?

There are very few bits that won't work correctly.

Just to confirm, you are saying that the IFD 440/540 does not work (yet) with the G500, the GDL-69A, nor the GDL-88?  And to further confirm, you are also saying that (unlike the IFDs) a 430/530 will work just fine with those Garmin products?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote arkvet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Feb 2018 at 3:11pm
So lets assume I did the dual G5 install which included the GAD29b and GMU-11.  It seems some dual G5 installations have the AI display glide slope / CDI / flight director bars, and some other helpful data that is pretty helpful for IFR approaches.  Is this additional info provided by the IFD via the GAD-29b / GMU-11 or is it dependent on the specific autopilot?  The AP will have to continue to be driven by the vacuum AI but I wonder if that will prohibit the additional info provided on the G5 AI screen.

Just some thoughts. I have a hard time wrapping my head around where all the information comes from.  I actually called garmin tech support today trying to get an answer to that question.  I never could get an answer and to some degree felt like I was annoying them. 
Brent

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oskrypuch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Feb 2018 at 9:09am
Originally posted by Catani Catani wrote:

This may be a dumb question, but are there equipment combinations where a 430 or 530, working and compatible with all existing installed equipment, is plug 'n play replaced by an IFD440 or 540, and the IFD replacement was incompatible with that same installed equipment?  If so, what equipment is compatible with a swapped-out 430/530 but not a swapped-in IFD 440/540?

There are very few bits that won't work correctly.

The G5 used as AI works just fine. The G5 as HSI works electrically, but it needs paperwork to be legal. There are some G500 issues, the details of which I can't recall. Apparently both of these items are high on the priority list, so we may see these attended to in 10.2.1.

The very newest Sirius XM (69A) will not work fully, but the older 69s are fine.

The GDL-88 is not supported, it was to be supported with the rest of the Garmin ADS-B stuff, but didn't make 10.2. Perhaps 10.2.1.?

That is about it. In my view, it really is an amazing bit of reverse engineering. A call to tech support will ferret out any issues, for anyone considering.

I have an ASPEN, EDM830, TAS605, WX-500, STEC 55x, 796, all work 100% with the IFD540, for me. The IFD replaced a 430W in my panel, a few years ago.

* Orest





Edited by oskrypuch - 01 Feb 2018 at 9:30am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gring Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Feb 2018 at 8:08am
The G5 and IFD540 do work together and have been installed as a field approval.



Edited by Gring - 01 Feb 2018 at 9:44am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Catani Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Feb 2018 at 1:14am
Originally posted by brou0040 brou0040 wrote:

...The problem is that on the main landing page, it is marketed as a "Direct Replacement".  There are people suggesting more accurate terminology, but that is not what Avidyne is doing, they are using misleading advertisement...

This may be a dumb question, but are there equipment combinations where a 430 or 530, working and compatible with all existing installed equipment, is plug 'n play replaced by an IFD440 or 540, and the IFD replacement was incompatible with that same installed equipment?  If so, what equipment is compatible with a swapped-out 430/530 but not a swapped-in IFD 440/540?
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