IFD540 Certification Status |
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marktrav
Newbie Joined: 08 May 2014 Location: Roswell, GA Status: Offline Points: 21 |
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I haven't been to Oshkosh in a couple of years, but of the 7 times that I DID go, I never felt unsafe about carrying anything expensive around. It's the most honest crowd I've ever had the pleasure of hanging around. Everyone's got a $10K box nearby.
But, the 540 (and my 440) will be like iPhones were when they were first released and everyone will covet one, right? :) Yeah, that's the ticket.... |
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Paul
Senior Member Joined: 17 Aug 2012 Location: Massachusetts Status: Offline Points: 285 |
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I don't think you could pick up a unit. The agreement was that they wouldn't be sent to you but to your selected Avidyne dealer.
Avionics shops charge less for installation of equipment that they sold because they make a profit on the sale. Avidyne is kicking back some money to the dealer to make up for the lost profit. Otherwise the dealers wouldn't be real interested in installing our IFDs or would charge a higher price to do it. I realize you were half-kidding. It would be seriously cool if people could walk away from the Avidyne booth with a box that said IFD 540 in big letters. On the other hand, I don't know that I would want to be carrying a box that said "$10,000 GPS" in big letters around Oshkosh. |
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pburger
Senior Member Joined: 26 Dec 2013 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 406 |
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Not a walk-in. I've been waiting two years. I think I was told I was in either month 2 or month 4, but the way Steve was talking, they're going to be able to compress the production schedule. I was half-kidding about picking it up at Oshkosh, but I was also half serious.
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chflyer
Senior Member Joined: 24 Jan 2013 Location: LSZK Status: Offline Points: 1022 |
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Do you have a preorder with month 1 delivery position?
Given that the 540 production is all sold out for the first 7 months or more, I can't imagine a walk-in getting a unit at Oshkosh ahead of those of us who have been waiting for 3 years for one ;-)
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Vince
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pburger
Senior Member Joined: 26 Dec 2013 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 406 |
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Can I just pick up my unit at Oshkosh? (2014, that is)
Unfortunately mine won't be a slide-in replacement, but I can have my Avionics guy queued up for when I get home.
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glassanza
Groupie Joined: 26 Feb 2013 Location: Georgia Status: Offline Points: 98 |
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Ditto on all counts!
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GDC25
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ddgates
Senior Member Joined: 12 Aug 2011 Location: Deer Valley Status: Offline Points: 1100 |
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In fairness, just wanted to add some levity to the situation.
I do think the Avidyne team is turning and burning as it were to get this out. It seems to be a difficult environment (competition, regulation, etc). I still have questions, though, on the wisdom of prerelease (lessons learned?) Once done, I think Jake deserves consideration for SVP of the year. |
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David Gates
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TurboPA30
Senior Member Joined: 18 Sep 2010 Location: 27XS Status: Offline Points: 138 |
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Garmin announced the WAAS upgrade for the 430/530 in 2000. For 2002. Then 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006 and finally shipped in 2007. 4-5 years delay...depending which initial statement you count.
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glassanza
Groupie Joined: 26 Feb 2013 Location: Georgia Status: Offline Points: 98 |
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Well played ddgates. Looks like my Q2 shipping question has been answered, hoping I can keep my medical long enough try one of these babies out...
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GDC25
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ddgates
Senior Member Joined: 12 Aug 2011 Location: Deer Valley Status: Offline Points: 1100 |
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The cynic would ask Oshkosh 2014? <g>
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David Gates
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AviJake
Admin Group Joined: 26 Mar 2009 Location: Lincoln MA Status: Offline Points: 2815 |
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We'll make Oshkosh.
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Steve Jacobson
sjacobson@avidyne.com |
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FORANE
Groupie Joined: 04 May 2013 Location: 0A9 Status: Offline Points: 57 |
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I could go back, way back, in this thread and read so many similar predictions... Oh, Steve, oh how we want to believe. |
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Lancair 235/320
RV-9A |
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AviJake
Admin Group Joined: 26 Mar 2009 Location: Lincoln MA Status: Offline Points: 2815 |
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No. It'll work out fine. We'll be shipping prior to Oshkosh.
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Steve Jacobson
sjacobson@avidyne.com |
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Phil_anthropist
Newbie Joined: 15 Mar 2014 Location: Massachusetts Status: Offline Points: 17 |
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It seems to me it is worth millions to team G if certification could be delayed beyond EAA Oshkosh 2014. Is it possible there are more than 2 players at this table? It might not be surprising if some other thing came up between now and then.
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TurboPA30
Senior Member Joined: 18 Sep 2010 Location: 27XS Status: Offline Points: 138 |
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I have full trust in Avidyne delivering a superior product in 2014. I just pre-ordered my 4th IFD540. All my planes will be Avidyne only. Come on guys, last round, you'll come out winning!
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ddgates
Senior Member Joined: 12 Aug 2011 Location: Deer Valley Status: Offline Points: 1100 |
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You are right about a problematic prerelease (I'm 3 years into this).
But I disagree about the FAA; 9th inning with 2 outs and they change the rules? Come on.
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David Gates
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Lyndons
Newbie Joined: 16 May 2013 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 11 |
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This projects been in the works for years now. Let's not blame the FAA for doing their due diligence. They are not the reason for delays based on what I've been reading in this forum. Clearly, Avidyne, who is in the business of designing, building and selling avionics, either intentionally misled or failed to plan properly. Us as customers, should point the finger at who is at fault. The FAA didn't take a deposit two years ago and promise me the ifd540. AVIDYNE DID!
It is what it is, wait or get your deposit back. Everyone one I've met from Avidyne seem like great people. Doesn't change the fact that they didn't deliver as promised. They failed miserably. |
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DV
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ddgates
Senior Member Joined: 12 Aug 2011 Location: Deer Valley Status: Offline Points: 1100 |
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Gring is right.
Broken is a kind understatement. Very disappointing to hear that the finish line continues to move into the distance.
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David Gates
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EgnosGuy
Newbie Joined: 26 May 2014 Location: Spain Status: Offline Points: 5 |
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Thanks for the update (and your previous response to my question as well). It seems to me that the authorities play more or less the same all throughout the world; indeed a pity...
Let's cross fingers :-)
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Emilio |
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Keezdisease
Newbie Joined: 18 Dec 2013 Location: Maryland Status: Offline Points: 15 |
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Thank you for your promptness and reality of the certification status. I'm sure this has been quite the task.
Waiting patiently. |
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Gring
Senior Member Joined: 30 Dec 2011 Location: Kingston, NY Status: Offline Points: 724 |
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Well, this is very unfortunate, but not expected with the FAA. I have been having issues with the FAA on removing the Night N/A restriction on our new approaches. This has been an ongoing issue I've been working on for two years now. The FAA has no sense of urgency, does not call back when messages are left, does not use updated information, even when it is in th same folder as the original documentation, and simply does not understand that there is a world out there that lives and dies by revenue transactions. Everything about our Government is broken!
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AviJake
Admin Group Joined: 26 Mar 2009 Location: Lincoln MA Status: Offline Points: 2815 |
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(30 May 2014 Status Update):
A June cert date is officially blown. All of our material is still expected to be formally submitted in time to support an end of June approval date BUT, in order to achieve a DO-200A Type 2 LOA letter (this letter validates the integrity of the nav data that you periodically upload), the local FAA Cert office has asked for assistance from the Washington DC FAA folks who want to conduct an on-site audit and their schedules can't support anything earlier than a 15, 16, 17 July audit. Despite some very energetic efforts on our part, we've been unable to find a way to pull that date in. It's an interesting dialog between us and the FAA who know how important the cert date is to us and our customers and they continually repeat that if we meet our delivery dates for the cert docs/artifacts and they are in R9.3 level of quality, they are confident we'll have approval in time to support shipping prior to Oshkosh. I believe them. Updates in bold red below. I stick by the externally consumable milestones earlier in this thread, namely:
1. Receive, and react accordingly to, the FAA-generated MPSUE assessment of the unit. This will likely drive some code changes but we won't know the magnitude until we get the official list from the FAA; Done. 2. Achieve 100% DO-178B Code Complete status. This is well beyond "feature complete". DO-178B "Code Complete" means we've finished all the code review and requirement tracing of the code per the FAA-recognized software standard. We can't finish this until we know the code is done changing. Note that we're done with all the changes on our end, we're just reacting now to any mandated changes; Done. 3. Officially declare DO-160 Hardware Qual testing to be complete; Already reported to be done. 4. Achieve "Red Label" status on the combined hardware/software system. This means that all formal for-credit software and hardware testing have been completed. In other words, this is a submittable-for-cert system; TFC is almost done. Based on extensive metrics to date, we project another 6ish days to complete that effort and reach "Red Label" status. 5. Complete official company "for-credit" flight testing of the final submittable system; No change since last report - Mike and I keep re-flying the flight test points that are part of this step. We'll have dry run each test point multiple times by the time this step is "a go". We think company testing will take between 3 and 7 days depending on the weather and airplane status. 6. Complete FAA TIA (Type Inspection Authorization) testing. This is the FAA's final exam of the complete system before they sign off on cert. FAA still plans to conduct TIA themselves and we are negotiating what exactly they want to fly for test points. Those agreed upon test points are a subset of our published company flight test points. They still believe they have pilot availability for the likely time windows. 7. Make our final submissions to the FAA of 100% of the certification artifacts. No change on this step but by way of supplemental information, our daily interaction with the FAA on both the R9.3 program and this program means they have gotten quite comfortable with the drafted data submission package. We are jointly reviewing the open punch list and at this point, both us and the FAA believe THE thing driving cert date will be the mid-July FAA audit for DO-200A discussed above and both sides believe a cert date in time to support shipping prior to Oshkosh is likely. They have supplied their audit checklist ahead of time and we think the audit is low risk, but of course, it isn't done until it's done. |
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Steve Jacobson
sjacobson@avidyne.com |
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glassanza
Groupie Joined: 26 Feb 2013 Location: Georgia Status: Offline Points: 98 |
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Pointless to take any time away from the Cert process at this point. Hard deadlines are out there now, let's give these folks the opportunity to come through. Have you tried the sim, although it does not account for wind correction, it does give you the opportunity to execute pattern entry holds and magically simple unpublished holds on your pc. Master the sim and I believe most of your concerns will be addressed.
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GDC25
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John
Newbie Joined: 05 Sep 2010 Location: Cleveland, OH Status: Offline Points: 11 |
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Steve-
Can I take you away from Cert issues for a moment...? I would like to understand what to expect to see on my IFD540 screen when executing holds. More specifically, what role, if any, will it play in assessing the Holding Pattern entry method (direct, parallel, or teardrop); what wind correction features will happen;and will the actual pattern itself display accurately (including wind corrective turns)? Also, has Avidyne tossed their "simplicity elixir" into the unit to produce some magically simple method of setting up unpublished holds? Thanx, John |
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AviJake
Admin Group Joined: 26 Mar 2009 Location: Lincoln MA Status: Offline Points: 2815 |
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Will post a progress update tomorrow (Friday) but to answer EgnosGuy directly, yes, the first cert is a FAA AML STC. We expect a simultaneous TSO and STC approval for the units. That will cover any N-reg airplane but we will submit for EASA cert shortly after the N-reg units start shipping.
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Steve Jacobson
sjacobson@avidyne.com |
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EgnosGuy
Newbie Joined: 26 May 2014 Location: Spain Status: Offline Points: 5 |
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Hi all!
I've been following with interest the thread and I must thank your transparency and in general the good level of feedback in the forum. I hope that the IFD540 is certified soon (by the way, Steve, any news?). In this regard, I understand that once the equipment is TSO'd, the STC for its installation will be also pursued following an AML approach, isn't it? What about the EASA certification? In Europe, we would like to know when and how this certification is taking place... Thanks in advance. All the best.
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Emilio |
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oskrypuch
Senior Member Joined: 09 Nov 2012 Location: CYFD Status: Offline Points: 3058 |
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+1
* Orest |
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MikeK
Groupie Joined: 16 Sep 2013 Status: Offline Points: 87 |
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Great thread! Thanks for sharing, I really enjoyed reading it and seeing all the photos. I wish I had space in the panel for dual 540s, but I do have another MFD, so that's okay.
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Gring
Senior Member Joined: 30 Dec 2011 Location: Kingston, NY Status: Offline Points: 724 |
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Here is a link to a BeechTalk thread where I've been discussing my experiences with the IFD540s.
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MikeK
Groupie Joined: 16 Sep 2013 Status: Offline Points: 87 |
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Exciting timeline. It's definitely down to the wire.
I've heard very little from the folks who are flying with the early units. I'd love to know how they are performing. Any issues with comm quality, navigation performance, touch screen responsiveness, etc? What's wonderful? What can you not live without now that you have it? :-)
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jblodgett
Groupie Joined: 24 Sep 2013 Status: Offline Points: 62 |
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I think your real drop dead time is Oshkosh. If you have certification by then you will be heroes. No certification and you will be crucified. Just my $0.02.
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AviJake
Admin Group Joined: 26 Mar 2009 Location: Lincoln MA Status: Offline Points: 2815 |
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(21 May 2014 Status Update):
We remain on track to have cert by the end of Q2. It may come at the last second of Q2 but so far nothing has blown that date.
Updates in bold red below. I stick by the externally consumable milestones earlier in this thread, namely:
1. Receive, and react accordingly to, the FAA-generated MPSUE assessment of the unit. This will likely drive some code changes but we won't know the magnitude until we get the official list from the FAA; Officially Done.
2. Achieve 100% DO-178B Code Complete status. This is well beyond "feature complete". DO-178B "Code Complete" means we've finished all the code review and requirement tracing of the code per the FAA-recognized software standard. We can't finish this until we know the code is done changing. Note that we're done with all the changes on our end, we're just reacting now to any mandated changes; This was completed a few months ago so nothing new to report here. 3. Officially declare DO-160 Hardware Qual testing to be complete; Already reported to be done. 4. Achieve "Red Label" status on the combined hardware/software system. This means that all formal for-credit software and hardware testing have been completed. In other words, this is a submittable-for-cert system; TFC is progressing well. We're running testing on multiple stations literally around the clock and 7 days/week. Based on extensive metrics to date, we project another 12ish days to complete that effort and reach "Red Label" status. There is always a little asymptotic behavior at the end game but we'll have a good feel for that in about 7 days. 5. Complete official company "for-credit" flight testing of the final submittable system; Mike and I keep re-flying the flight test points that are part of this step. We'll have dry run each test point multiple times by the time this step is "a go". We think company testing will take between 3 and 7 days depending on the weather and airplane status. 6. Complete FAA TIA (Type Inspection Authorization) testing. This is the FAA's final exam of the complete system before they sign off on cert. We had a productive face-to-face session with the FAA on Monday 19 May to go over the detailed punch list of remaining activities. They do plan to conduct TIA themselves (it's a subset of the company test points) and currently have pilot availability during the projected time window and have tentatively blocked that out so they have resources ready when it's time. 7. Make our final submissions to the FAA of 100% of the certification artifacts. No change on this step but we've already drafted the larger and more content-filled documents from this set of data. We think it'll be about a calendar month from the time we reach "Red Label" until we have TSO/STC approval in hand. The FAA's own metric is a maximum of 30 days from final data submission to issuance of TSO/STC and they repeated multiple times during the Monday face-to-face that they intend to meet or beat that metric. We've been going through agonizing delays and data re-submission requests on the R9.3 project and happily for IFD540 customers, the FAA asserts that will all count for the IFD540 project too. |
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Steve Jacobson
sjacobson@avidyne.com |
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oskrypuch
Senior Member Joined: 09 Nov 2012 Location: CYFD Status: Offline Points: 3058 |
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Yes, read some of the recent posts. It may be close to the wire, but it is shaping up for cert by end of June, with quantity shipments starting in July.
* Orest |
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phkmn
Groupie Joined: 06 Feb 2013 Location: Chicago Status: Offline Points: 78 |
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Got another month and 10 days yet...
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PH
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jblodgett
Groupie Joined: 24 Sep 2013 Status: Offline Points: 62 |
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Steve,
We are approaching the end of the second quarter. I believe you have said you were confident that deliveries would start by then. Is that still true? Thanks, Jim |
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MikeK
Groupie Joined: 16 Sep 2013 Status: Offline Points: 87 |
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Okay, understood, thanks. That's very helpful for planning.
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Gring
Senior Member Joined: 30 Dec 2011 Location: Kingston, NY Status: Offline Points: 724 |
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I had that issue with a KX170 radio with my 430w when I bought my first aircraft. The avionics shop said there was a service communication from Garmin that required testing of transmitting on certain frequencies to determine if it affected the GPS signal and was part of the required installation test procedures. Since that time, I've had several friends, all with upgraded panels with a KX155s and each one had issues with knocking out the GPS. The KX165 in my Bonanza would knock out the GPS on one particular frequency which happened to be pilot control lighting at one field.
There is a recent thread on BeechTalk about this very issue.
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AviJake
Admin Group Joined: 26 Mar 2009 Location: Lincoln MA Status: Offline Points: 2815 |
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Joe - I'm not aware of KX-155's taking out GPS satellite lock. Sounds like Geoffrey has some knowledge on that front - I wonder if anybody else has heard of such behavior.
Mike K - reference your 5 May question - we're waiting until cert is assured before we ramp production. We have all the material in stock and have pre-assembled a number of components but the final assembly will wait until all uncertainty is removed. |
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Steve Jacobson
sjacobson@avidyne.com |
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Gring
Senior Member Joined: 30 Dec 2011 Location: Kingston, NY Status: Offline Points: 724 |
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Hi Joe, it is not uncommon for a KX-155 to knock out GPS signals on a 430/530 devices. I know one of the test aircraft and it has a single 540 with an older Collins radio.
On a separate note, my buddy Ben owns Executive Flight out there at French Valley. I've spent a lot of time with him out there before he moved to Havasu. Great airport with lots going on.
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Joe Jet
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Are all of the pre cert installs dual 540 installations? We just did our single install with the temporary 530W and our COM 2, a KX-155, is killing the GPS sat reception.
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Airotto370
Newbie Joined: 18 Jun 2012 Location: Carmel, NY Status: Offline Points: 18 |
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Thanks Steve, I'm getting excited!!!
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MikeK
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For those of us who were told that our units were in "production month <x>", does the change that you guys made in how you did the pilot program (with the experimental guys) affect our deliveries at all? I wasn't sure if you had started producing units pending the FAA approval, or if you want to have that cert in hand before you ramp production.
Thanks!
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Rusty
Newbie Joined: 16 Mar 2014 Location: Texas Status: Offline Points: 3 |
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Hadn't refreshed my page. Thank you for the update.
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Rusty
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Any updates? How are things progressing?
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oskrypuch
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I like it! :-)
* Orest |
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tony
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Thank you for the update
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edanford
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Appreciate the update Steve.
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Ed
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AviJake
Admin Group Joined: 26 Mar 2009 Location: Lincoln MA Status: Offline Points: 2815 |
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(3 May 2014 Status Update):
We remain on track to have cert by the end of Q2. Updates in bold red below. I stick by the externally consumable milestones earlier in this thread, namely:
1. Receive, and react accordingly to, the FAA-generated MPSUE assessment of the unit. This will likely drive some code changes but we won't know the magnitude until we get the official list from the FAA; Officially Done. 2. Achieve 100% DO-178B Code Complete status. This is well beyond "feature complete". DO-178B "Code Complete" means we've finished all the code review and requirement tracing of the code per the FAA-recognized software standard. We can't finish this until we know the code is done changing. Note that we're done with all the changes on our end, we're just reacting now to any mandated changes; This was completed a few months ago so nothing new to report here. 3. Officially declare DO-160 Hardware Qual testing to be complete; Already reported to be done. 4. Achieve "Red Label" status on the combined hardware/software system. This means that all formal for-credit software and hardware testing have been completed. In other words, this is a submittable-for-cert system; This is where we've made the most progress since the last update. Code Coverage was the largest part of this effort and I'm happy to say that is behind us now. That took several calendar months to complete and clears the path for the official for-credit software (DO-178) testing. We've started software test-for-credit (TFC) and this should take us most of May to complete. I do have the details of the TFC progress that we're tracking very precisely that I may start posting if it makes sense. The % complete number creeps up a few percent every day and we're running 7 days a week. It might be fun to start posting those numbers by mid-May so the really forum junkies have something to track. 5. Complete official company "for-credit" flight testing of the final submittable system; Mike and I keep re-flying the flight test points that are part of this step. We'll have dry run each test point multiple times by the time this step is "a go". 6. Complete FAA TIA (Type Inspection Authorization) testing. This is the FAA's final exam of the complete system before they sign off on cert. No real change here but we're scheduling a meeting with the FAA in the next few days to go over a detailed blow-by-blow coordination plan for the last month of activities. 7. Make our final submissions to the FAA of 100% of the certification artifacts. No change on this step but we've already drafted the larger and more content-filled documents from this set of data. We think it'll be about a calendar month from the time we reach "Red Label" until we have TSO/STC approval in hand. |
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Steve Jacobson
sjacobson@avidyne.com |
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jwjenks
Groupie Joined: 28 Aug 2013 Location: N14 New Jersey Status: Offline Points: 50 |
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I purchased an "IFD540 Full Stack" on my AMEX card in June 2012. There was no delivery month.
You can PM me. John |
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JWJ
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AviJake
Admin Group Joined: 26 Mar 2009 Location: Lincoln MA Status: Offline Points: 2815 |
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MysticCobra is correct. It should be on your original paperwork. Let me know if you can't find that and I'll dig up our copy of it.
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Steve Jacobson
sjacobson@avidyne.com |
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