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540 Install Considerations

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brou0040 View Drop Down
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    Posted: 11 Feb 2015 at 9:49pm
I'm about to install my 540!

Below is the list of things to talk to the shop about based on discussions I've seen here.  Any additional suggestions?

I'm going From:
King KMA24 (Audio Panel)
Garmin 155XL (GPS, VFR only installation)
King KX-155A (NAV/COM, with King KI-209 indicator)
King KX-155A (NAV/COM, with King KI-208 indicator)
King KT76A (Transponder)
PCA 400 (Intercom)
Navomatic 300A (Autopilot)
EI FP-5L (Fuel Flow)
EI UBG-16 (Engine Monitor)
ACK E-04 (ELT)

To:
King KMA24 (Audio Panel)
Avidyne IFD-540 (GPS/NAV/COM with Garmin GI-106A)
King KX-155A (NAV/COM, with King KI-209 indicator)
Avidyne AXP-340 (Transponder)
PCA 400 (Intercom)
Navomatic 300A (Autopilot)
EI FP-5L (Fuel Flow)
EI UBG-16 (Engine Monitor)
ACK E-04 (ELT)

Shop talking points:
Terrain alerting audio needs wire from IFD to audio panel
AXP340 will need a wire from the IFD to the transponder to auto toggle it on/off ground
Wire from the IFD to the AXP with position information for ADS-B
Wire IFD standby channel monitoring to a switched audio channel such as the ADF
  (The IFD pins are: P1006, Pin 7 - Com Monitor Audio Hi, P1006, Pin 34 - Com Monitor Audio Lo)
Transponder wire to the audio panel for audio alerts
IFD to FP-5L for GPS position
FP-5L to IFD for fuel flow
IFD as GPS source for ELT
Replace KI-209 with GI-106A for GPS capability

Question: For dimming, can I use the EI dimmer for the IFD-540?

Comment: I know I won't have some datablock info since I don't have a baro input

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Paul View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Feb 2015 at 11:22pm
I take it you have one KX 155A with glideslope and one without.  And you are keeping the one with glideslope and using it with the KI 209.

Since your stack is being rewired anyways I'd consider replacing the KMA 24 and PCA 400 with a more modern panel with built-in intercom.  You could probably find a used PMA 8000 series at a good price, maybe even with Bluetooth.

If you still have money left and you want to spend it you could add a GPSS roll steering converter.  The Icarus SAM and the DAC GDC-31 support the 300A.  I don't know if the DAC has an STC or if you even need one.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote brou0040 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Feb 2015 at 11:45pm
I was thinking about an audio panel, but I wasn't happy with the current options.  I really like Garmin's 3D audio, but I'm not sure I'm a fan of the PMA450 even though it has IntelliAudio.

Yes, I'm planning on keeping the glideslope and KI-209.  I had my radio cut out a few times over the summer after extended transmission while talking with flight service trying to avoid thunderstorms while IFR.  Can't wait for ADS-B in!  The shop is going to bench test both radios into a load.  If either has a problem, I'll keep the good one, otherwise I'm going with the glideslope.

I was about to pull the trigger on a GDC-31 until I found out that although they support the 300A, they are not certified.  I'd have to go back through my email to figure out exactly what piece they were missing, but this was directly from DAC.  They said they have the paperwork for the full approval in with the FAA, but it's been over a year and still waiting.  I like the interface of the DAC much better than the Icarus and I don't want the extra features so adding a DAC will be another stop into the shop in a few years.

Thanks for the suggestions.  Any thoughts about connectivity?  I'm worried I'll forget get to tell the shop to connect X to Y to enable Avidyne's Z feature.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oskrypuch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Feb 2015 at 9:18am
+1 on the audio component clean up, and NOW is the time. The 8000BT used is a great idea. Otherwise, there is the 450 or Avidyne's 240 which is a rebadged and slightly redesigned 8000BT. The *armin 340 is a good unit, but more pricey, and there is always the concern that they might make it somehow incompatible in a future firmware upgrade.

You will not only get much better performance on your radios, but will also simplify your installation. Old audio equipment can be a real pain to get properly working with new equipment.

Further the cost is small, and it could even SAVE you some dollars with less labor. I have a friend that stayed with his old audio setup, when updating his panel. He really regrets having done that. There were quite  a number of callback visits to try to get everything working and quiet, and it still isn't quite right.

* Orest



Edited by oskrypuch - 12 Feb 2015 at 9:21am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chflyer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Feb 2015 at 9:36am
Thanks to brou0040 for starting this thread!

I too, am about to install my 540 and would appreciate comments and suggestions about setup.

I'm going From:
King KMA24 (Audio Panel)
Sigtronics 400 (Intercom)
Garmin 430W (GPS Nav/Com IFR en-route approval only att but eligible for approach with HSI upgrade)
King KX-155A (NAV/COM, with King KI-209 indicator)
Narco 890 (DME)
Garmin GTX 330 (Transponder, without ES)
Sandia SAE5-35 (Encoder)
Sandel SN3308 (HSI)
STEC 30 (Autopilot)
STEC GPSS
JPI EDM-700-6C (Engine Monitor & Fuel Flow)
3M WX-500 (Stormscope)
Kannad 406 AF (ELT)

To:
King KMA24 (Audio Panel)
Sigtronics 400 (Intercom)
Avidyne IFD-540 (GPS/NAV/COM with Sandel SN3500 HSI)
Garmin 430W (GPS/NAV/COM with Garmin GI-106A)
Narco 890 (DME)
Avidyne AXP-340 (Transponder)
STEC 30 (Autopilot)
STEC GPSS
JPI EDM-700-6C (Engine Monitor & Fuel Flow)
3M WX-500 (Stormscope)
Kannad 406 AF (ELT)

The Garmin 430W will be replaced with an IFD440 as soon as available.

I know the audio panel and intercom are prehistoric, but they work fine and my budget is really stretched. Upgrading the SN3308 to allow IFR approaches would have cost over $2000 and I picked up a used SN3500 instead since the cabling will need to be redone anyway.

I'm a belt and suspenders kind of guy (I have both vac & elect AI), hence replacing the KI-209 with a GI-106A for the 2nd GPS/NAV/COM rather than having both run off of the SN3500. I believe the SN3500 can still be set up to with RMI-like pointers to both GPS units.

Does anyone know if the KMA24 will support a couple of the warning inputs from the AXP340 and IFD540? I notice that there is an altimeter warning input lead meant to interface with the KI 250. Would this also work with the AXP340? Any suggestions for getting the IFD540 TOC chime via the KMA24? Or would these come through on the radio receiver line? I notice that there is a 500Ohm DME audio input for a KN 62 DME. I don't think this is supported/used with my Narco 890 and would be free.

Any tips or suggestions for connectivity or gotcha's would be welcome. I'll have the IFD540/G430W interconnected on port 3 so the IFD440 can just slip in and I'll get cross-filling.

Vince
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chflyer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Feb 2015 at 9:39am
Noted Orest's comments about audio panel. That will be a tough decision, as I'm really stretched now with the addition of the AXP340 to replace the GTX330.
Vince
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chflyer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Feb 2015 at 9:49am
And BTW, I still have an old Cessna R546E ADF that is also connected to the KMA24. I plan to leave it in place until it dies.

Vince
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AviJake Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Feb 2015 at 10:17am
For your consideration, here is a snippet from the revised Installation Manual that is coming out as part of Release 10.0.3.0:

1.1    Optional Installation Features

This section summarizes optional features that may require extra wiring.

Feature

Description

Reference Section for Installation Details

Audio Panel Aurals

Allows IFD5XX produced aural alerts (e.g. FLTA terrain alerts, Top of Descent alerts, 500’ callouts, etc) to be heard in the headsets.

Section 6.11.1

Transponder Support

Allows IFD5XX GPS position transmission to the transponder for ADS-B operation and IFD5XX Air/Ground output to the transponder for automatic Ground-Alt transition.

Section 6.12

Com Presets

Enables external command (e.g. yoke-mounted button) to select frequencies in the com preset list to be loaded into the #1 Standby com slot.

Section 6.1.9.4

Com Frequency Active-Standby Swap

Enables external command (e.g. yoke-mounted button) to swap the Active and #1 Standby com frequencies.

Section 6.1.9.4

Nav Frequency Active-Standby Swap

Enables external command (e.g. yoke-mounted button) to swap the Active and #1 Standby nav frequencies.

Section 6.1.9.4

Synchro Heading Input

Allows the IFD5XX to take heading data in via synchro protocol.

Section 6.1.2

Standby Com Monitor

Allows the com frequency in the #1 standby slot to be heard in the headsets when installed with a compatible audio panel (e.g. Avidyne AMX240).

Section 6.1.9.5 

Table 17: Optional Installation Features
Steve Jacobson
sjacobson@avidyne.com
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roltman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Feb 2015 at 10:46am
Steve,

The synchro heading won't be used till 10.1.0 update correct?  Or were you able to put it in 10.0.3.0 update?

Thanks
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AviJake Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Feb 2015 at 11:33am
10.1.0.0  (spring time release)
Steve Jacobson
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oskrypuch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Feb 2015 at 2:00pm
What exactly is the synchro heading input?

* Orest

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roltman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Feb 2015 at 2:33pm
I have a King KCS-55A HSI with a 28V 400Hz synchro module, which is a separate module and not part of the system.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synchro

As a result, I can pass the XYZ signals into the IFD540.  As such the 540 will know, and can display, my magnetic heading instead of just ground track.



Edited by roltman - 12 Feb 2015 at 2:35pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote brou0040 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Feb 2015 at 8:40pm
Originally posted by AviJake AviJake wrote:

For your consideration, here is a snippet from the revised Installation Manual that is coming out as part of Release 10.0.3.0:

Thanks, this is great.

I hope I'm not missing something, but I spoke with my avionics shop and they are saying that this is not a stack rewire for me.  I was told about 4 hours (if I remember that right) for the added wires to the KMA24, but 24 hours for a new panel, which will increase the install cost by $2k, not to mention buying the audio panel.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Feb 2015 at 9:23pm
The GDC-31 has been installed in planes without the STC.  There is no STC for the KAP 140 autopilot which is in our plane.  I looked around on the Internet and found a 182 with a KAP 140 and a GDC-31.  If we decided to install the GDC-31 I would have contacted the owner of the plane to see if I could get a copy of their 337.

DAC might also know of someone who has installed the GDC-31 with a 300A.  Or you can ask in the Cessna Pilot's Association or Cessna Owner Organization forums.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bneub111 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Feb 2015 at 4:24pm

I am currently in the process of upgrading from a 430 to and IFD540.

Is it possible to connect the IFD540 standby COM monitoring feature to an unused button on a non-Avidyne audio panel?  I have a Garmin GMA-340 that I plan to keep.  Can the monitor be sent to my unused COM3 button for example?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oskrypuch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Feb 2015 at 4:39pm
Originally posted by bneub111 bneub111 wrote:

... to connect the IFD540 standby COM monitoring feature to an unused button on a non-Avidyne audio panel? 

Yes, and it will work just as you'd expect, just as it would with an AMX240.

Our IFD540 standby monitor line is connected to the AUX input on our 8000BT, ready for the 10.1 firmware, when it will be livened up.

BTW, you are going to LOVE it!

* Orest



Edited by oskrypuch - 16 Feb 2015 at 4:41pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AviJake Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Feb 2015 at 4:49pm
That is a question best answered by the non-Avidyne audio panel suppliers themselves.   But, I will take a shot at answering it based on what I do know or think I know.

The IFD540 (as of a hardware mod that was made at the end of 2014) is always providing the audio signal of the #1 standby frequency out on a specific pin.

The MON1 and MON2 buttons on the Avidyne AMX240 audio panel allows one to hear the audio on from the selected standby frequency and that automatically mutes when the active frequency is in use.   This is NOT an unswitched/unmuted input that many other audio panels work with.

In your specific case, I think the answer is yes, you should be able to wire the IFD540 standby com freq channel to the COM3 input pin on the GMA340.   If you pressed the COM3 button (not the COM3 MIC button), you should be able to hear the output of the IFD540 standby audio channel.  I think your real question is can you wire it that way and then press the COM1 and COM1 MIC and COM3 buttons to hear and talk on COM1 and monitor COM3?   It's been too long since I've used a GMA340 so presuming that is your real question, maybe somebody else can chime in before I have a chance to test that in the lab.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bneub111 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Feb 2015 at 5:10pm

Originally posted by AviJake AviJake wrote:

  I think your real question is can you wire it that way and then press the COM1 and COM1 MIC and COM3 buttons to hear and talk on COM1 and monitor COM3?   It's been too long since I've used a GMA340 so presuming that is your real question, maybe somebody else can chime in before I have a chance to test that in the lab.

That's exactly what I want to be able to do - Have COM1 "live" for normal two way communications and listen to COM3.  I understand that MIC3 would not have any function, but that is ok.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oskrypuch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Feb 2015 at 5:20pm
Originally posted by AviJake AviJake wrote:


The IFD540 (as of a hardware mod that was made at the end of 2014) is always providing the audio signal of the #1 standby frequency out on a specific pin.


Oh?

I thought that that was not going to be available until the 10.1 firmware update? I do have that wire pair run to my audio panel (AUX switched input), but I've not heard any output there yet from the IFD540 standby freq.

* Orest

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote brou0040 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Feb 2015 at 8:18pm
Originally posted by oskrypuch oskrypuch wrote:

Originally posted by AviJake AviJake wrote:


The IFD540 (as of a hardware mod that was made at the end of 2014) is always providing the audio signal of the #1 standby frequency out on a specific pin.


Oh?

I thought that that was not going to be available until the 10.1 firmware update? I do have that wire pair run to my audio panel (AUX switched input), but I've not heard any output there yet from the IFD540 standby freq.

* Orest


I was under the same impression.  Can you state when the change was made or the serial numbers that if you have a higher than a certain number, this hardware is already modded.  I've got a mid Dec unit that is being installed at the moment.  It would be nice to know if I'm going to need to send this back for a hardware mod to enable this feature - even if it requires an additional software update yet to come.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AviJake Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Feb 2015 at 8:31pm
It takes both a hardware mod (fall 2014 timeframe) and a software update (release 10.1.0.0).

I'll have to check dates on Tues.
Steve Jacobson
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roltman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Feb 2015 at 8:48pm
So when I sent it in for the VHF and OBS fix a couple weeks ago did they apply all outstanding mods?
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Originally posted by AviJake AviJake wrote:

It takes both a hardware mod (fall 2014 timeframe) and a software update (release 10.1.0.0).

I'll have to check dates on Tues.

Are we maybe talking two different things--the software mod only to work with the AMX240, and both the hardware and software mod to work with other audio panels?

IFD product literature has bragged about standby com freq monitoring with the Avidyne audio panel for years.  Surely the first IFD rolled off the line with the hardware in place to support that capability.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roltman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Feb 2015 at 8:19am
There's really nothing special about the AMX240 panel compared to anything else PS-Engineering makes other than the labels on the "MON" buttons.  In the rest of the PS-Engineering line, those buttons would would be labeled as "DME" and "ADF". 
Seriously that's it, just labels.  Now Avidyne did have PS-Engeering add another co-pilot volume knob, but other than that it's a PS-8000BT, with a reworked user interface.  Now if you get into the guts some items got moved to accommodate the second knob, but it's all PS-8000BT parts.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bneub111 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Feb 2015 at 8:39am

Originally posted by AviJake AviJake wrote:

It takes both a hardware mod (fall 2014 timeframe) and a software update (release 10.1.0.0).

I'll have to check dates on Tues.

Any luck finding the dates?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AviJake Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Feb 2015 at 9:35am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chflyer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Mar 2015 at 10:32am
I'm not sure if this is the right thread for this, but here goes ...

I am planning a dual IFD540/440 setup with an HSI (Sandel SN3500) for the 540 and a G106A as 2nd CDI for the 440 (so one CDI is still available in case of HSI failure).

In the PG p5-7, there is a note about OBS behaviour in dual IFD operations stating that the 2nd CDI will be flagged as invalid if Nav1 source is OBS mode and both IFD will display Nav1 course. Can anyone confirm that this restriction does NOT apply if nav1 is in GPS or VLOC state?

With many approaches having cross-radials, of course these can be displayed on the HSI in RMI mode (with 180° to cross radial value), but the 2nd CDI could also be used with nav2 in OBS mode set to the actual cross-radial. However, this would depend on a positive answer to my question above.

Vince
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kentucky Captain Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Mar 2015 at 7:31pm
I am in the third week of the new panel install and saw this forum here and decided to jump in.  We are completely gutting the panel. The only thing that will stay is the altimeter, airspeed, and attitude indicator and that is only because the SAI 340 is not certified yet.  They will be replaced when it is.  Coming in is:

PS Engineering PMA 450 audio panel
IFD 540
AXP 340 Mode S transponder w/ADS-B out.
Garmin GNC 255 Nav/Com
Aspen 1000 Pro PFD
S-Tec System 30 autopilot
JPI EDM 900 primary engine monitor
ACK E-04 406mhz ELT

They are wiring for the MLB100 data link computer and will install when certified. Hopefully the SAI 340 will be certified by December and will be installed then. Gulf Coast Avionics is doing the install.  I  have two iPads running Foreflight and they will be mounted on RAM Mount balls that will be mounted on the four corners of the panel. I can finally get away from the glass suction mounts. They are wiring a 3.5mm jack on the left side for my iPad and it will connect to the ADF input so that I can get audio alerts from the Foreflight software through the headphones. I am having a 12 volt receptacle mounted in the bottom left and right corners of the panel to power the iPads.  That is also where they are placing the conventional and Lemo plugs for headsets. We are adding two pair of Lightspeed Zulu PFX headsets to round out the upgrade.

Given the equipment list above, is there anything to watch out for or make sure gets done to get the most interoperability from this install? I know that the 406mhz ELT will get GPS data from the IFD 540. The IFD 540 and JPI EDM 900 send data both ways. The IFD 540 sends data to the Aspen.

I read on another thread in this forum that someone was hoping that the IFD 540 would send traffic and weather data to the Aspen. Since Aspen has a product for that and charges for their updates, it seems unlikely to me that this will happen. One can always hope. Since I will already be committed for around $1K a year to Jeppeson for data for the IFD 540 I didn't want to incur any more ongoing expenses so opted to limit my Aspen purchase to the PFD only.  I hope to add another panel to the Aspen soon for redundancy.

It sure would be nice if they certified the MLB100 in the next week and I could get it installed now instead of having to make another 6 hour flight to Lakeland but I think that ship has sailed since we are so close to finishing now.
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