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Working with Clarity and FlyQ - Part 2 |
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M20Kid ![]() Groupie ![]() Joined: 19 Aug 2015 Location: AZ Status: Offline Points: 79 |
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Since my original threat got hijacked by the MLB100 discussions, I wanted to repost my original question to see if anyone had the same issue and a possible solution. Here is my issue ...
I recently got my airplane back from the installers who put in my new
540, 340, 240, and MLB100. With such great stuff installed, who needs
FlyQ anymore? Well, I do because traffic is not active on the 540 ...
yet. Also, FlyQ will make a great back up for additional information
regardless of the information presented on the 540.
My issue is that I use a Clarity box to transmit ADS-B data to my IPad running FlyQ. Ever since I got the new avionics my Clarity seems unable to transmit data to FlyQ. I can connect anywhere else, but not in my airplane. The unit will physically pair with the IPad but no ADS-B information is passed between the units. Funny, though, the AHARS still works. It seems that something must be jamming the signal from the Clarity. I've tried moving the Clarity to different locations (including sitting on the IPad) and nothing is able to transfer. If I take it out of the airplane everything connects and transfers properly. Has anyone else experienced this? How did you make it work again? Tailwinds! |
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Paul ![]() Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: 17 Aug 2012 Location: Massachusetts Status: Offline Points: 285 |
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Our plane has a 540, 340, and 240. We have a Stratus II providing ADS-B data to the iPad. And we haven't seen any problems with connecting.
Have you tried turning off the avionics equipment one device at a time? |
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MysticCobra ![]() Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: 29 Jan 2013 Status: Offline Points: 656 |
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I assume the Clarity just uses normal wifi, right? Probably 802.11g?
That's what my SkyGuard TWX uses. I have all the same Avidyne equipment installed in my plane (540, 340, 240, and MLB100). Skyguard is in the back, on the hat shelf behind the luggage area. My setup works fine.
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AzAv8r ![]() Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: 06 Dec 2011 Location: Arizona Status: Offline Points: 154 |
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We have a 540, 340, and an iLevil2 which work fine.
This is entirely speculation, but I could conceive that a poor transponder antenna connection could result in relatively high power @ 1090 Mhz being radiated in the cabin with each transponder response or squitter. This could saturate the LNA in the Clarity, and depending on the design might take long enough to recover that no useful data is received. Can you test with the transponder turned off? Phoenix Approach may not cooperate, but if you fly outside the Mode-C veil you won't need their permission to perform such a test. Or does the Clarity have a diagnostic app to assess the receiver status? Mechanisms affecting the wifi connection selectively (AHRS data received, ADS-B data transmitted but not received) seem pretty far-fetched. |
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M20Kid ![]() Groupie ![]() Joined: 19 Aug 2015 Location: AZ Status: Offline Points: 79 |
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Paul,
"Have you tried turning off the avionics equipment one device at a time?" Good suggestion. I have not tried that yet, partly because the connect time on the Clarity is 15 to 30 seconds from the time of activation until the IPad sees it. I wondered if I would know when enough time had elapsed to be sure the device I just turned off was not the culprit. Hmmm ... Edited by M20Kid - 15 Oct 2015 at 10:42am |
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M20Kid ![]() Groupie ![]() Joined: 19 Aug 2015 Location: AZ Status: Offline Points: 79 |
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MysticCobra,
"That's what my SkyGuard TWX uses. I have all the same Avidyne equipment installed in my plane (540, 340, 240, and MLB100). Skyguard is in the back, on the hat shelf behind the luggage area. My setup works fine." I had always placed the Clarity on the glareshield where it had a clear view of the sky. I've tried it there, moved it to the back seat, moved it to the floor in the front seat, and then sat it on top of the IPad. Nothing. I do wonder if the Clarity unit happened to fail at the same time as the new equipment got installed. It seems to get very hot when I turn it on and I don't remember that in the past. |
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M20Kid ![]() Groupie ![]() Joined: 19 Aug 2015 Location: AZ Status: Offline Points: 79 |
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AzAv8r -
"We have a 540, 340, and an iLevil2 which work fine. This is entirely speculation, but I could conceive that a poor transponder antenna connection could result in relatively high power @ 1090 Mhz being radiated in the cabin with each transponder response or squitter. This could saturate the LNA in the Clarity, and depending on the design might take long enough to recover that no useful data is received. Can you test with the transponder turned off? Phoenix Approach may not cooperate, but if you fly outside the Mode-C veil you won't need their permission to perform such a test. Or does the Clarity have a diagnostic app to assess the receiver status? Mechanisms affecting the wifi connection selectively (AHRS data received, ADS-B data transmitted but not received) seem pretty far-fetched." Interesting about the transponder; I'll have a look. I had the install shop leave my old King transponder in the panel as a backup, so I have two - double the interference? The other thing I completely agree with is what you said about the unlikely AHARS data coming through but not the ADS-B data. I wondered if the Clarity itself has failed but don't know how to check it. |
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safari ![]() Groupie ![]() Joined: 28 Apr 2014 Location: Sedona Status: Offline Points: 55 |
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I have the avidyne 540 and transponder but no mb100 I use the clarity with fly q and have experienced no problems.
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Dave
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Leonard ![]() Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: 05 Jul 2012 Location: Lafayette LA Status: Offline Points: 107 |
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Are you Running FlyQ 2.1. Checked settings in FQ and ipad? Confirmed FQ IPad connection in settings of IPad?
Shoot FlyQ an email to Steve At stevep@seattleavionics.com
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AzAv8r ![]() Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: 06 Dec 2011 Location: Arizona Status: Offline Points: 154 |
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With two transponders: do they have separate antennas, do you have a cable loop or switch to allow you to connect either transponder to a single antenna, or did they "T" the transponders to a single antenna? If the latter, you ARE radiating a strong signal into the cabin due to the impedance mismatch, and I'd say that's the problem.
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M20Kid ![]() Groupie ![]() Joined: 19 Aug 2015 Location: AZ Status: Offline Points: 79 |
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I am running FlyQ 2.1, but I hadn't updated my IPad to the latest software. I just updated that so perhaps I may have some benefit. My plan is to fly again tomorrow and I'll check out some of the suggestions (if the IPad update doesn't appear to do the trick). |
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M20Kid ![]() Groupie ![]() Joined: 19 Aug 2015 Location: AZ Status: Offline Points: 79 |
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No; two fully separate systems including antennas and encoders. I have a switch to select 1 or 2. The one not in use is usually in Stand-by, so it shouldn't be sending out any signals ... right? |
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DavidBunin ![]() Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: 20 May 2015 Location: Rockwall, TX Status: Offline Points: 742 |
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The off unit's antenna is still out there, receiving the data bursts from the on unit, and bringing some of that energy back into the aircraft. If you have two totally separate and independent systems, what does the 1/2 select switch do? David Bunin |
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M20Kid ![]() Groupie ![]() Joined: 19 Aug 2015 Location: AZ Status: Offline Points: 79 |
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The 1/2 switch selects the transponder signal from the 340 (#1) or the KT76 (#2) and sends only that signal. The one not being used at the time goes to Stand-by mode or remains Off. An interesting thing I discovered when I switched to the KT76 was that the 340 automatically went to Stand-by. |
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compasst ![]() Senior Member ![]() Joined: 22 Feb 2015 Location: Akron, OH Status: Offline Points: 176 |
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It is entirely possible that flyq is the culprit. I do beta testing for FlyQ, and I have experienced frequent occasions of not being able to get traffic and weather data into FlyQ using a stratus 2S GPS. For two years I used the clarity, frequently experiencing connectivity issues with it. I replaced it recently with a new clarity, but it still had connectivity issues so I changed to the stratus GPS. On a recent flight, I documented several occasions when the ADSB portion of the datastream was not being resolved by FlyQ but was being resolved by for Foreflight.
In my experience, FlyQ has issues with decoding ADSB data stream. I experienced this before and since equipping my plane with all avidyne equipment. Also experienced this with clarity and stratus GPS units. I have also seen some ADSB decoding issues with ForeFlight, but to a much lesser extent than with FlyQ. Try establishing clarity and FlyQ connection before turning on aircraft master. If possible, do this at an airport that has an ADSB antenna nearby. If ADSB drops off after aircraft radio equipment is turned on, then you have a clue. If your iPad does not have a GPS internally, and you are getting airplane tracking info in FlyQ, then the data connection is valid and is working. If your iPad does have a GPS, testing the data connection is a bit more difficult, but is still possible this way. If you're getting ahrs data, then data connection to clarity is working. This connection is an all-or-nothing matter - either all of the data is coming into the iPad, or it's not. If it's coming in and not being displayed, then the culprit is FlyQ. You might try wingx or fltplan apps that support clarity just to prove out the data stream is being received and decoded. |
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paulr ![]() Senior Member ![]() Joined: 24 Jan 2014 Status: Offline Points: 558 |
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I'm glad it's not just me. I tried using FlyQ on a recent XC flight and found that it just flat-out didn't show traffic, whereas Foreflight would. I filed a support ticket and was told that FlyQ and Foreflight can't coexist-- their recommended fix is to reboot the Stratus and the iPad when switching between the apps. Even when I did that, I didn't get any Stratus traffic in FlyQ on the return leg, even in a fairly busy area where I would have expected to see it.
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DavidBunin ![]() Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: 20 May 2015 Location: Rockwall, TX Status: Offline Points: 742 |
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Interesting. I am always trying to understand new ways that avionics can be connected. Given that each of your transponders has its own antenna, I do not see how your 1/2 switch could "send" anything directly. Instead, I suspect the switch is actually an external mode input for a forced-standby mode. In other words, you select XPDR1 and the 1/2 switch forces the #2 unit into the standby mode, and vice-versa. If that's the case, then the switch is actually doing nothing to the selected transponder (which is okay). I may be wrong (and that's also okay). I just like to think this stuff through. David Bunin |
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AzAv8r ![]() Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: 06 Dec 2011 Location: Arizona Status: Offline Points: 154 |
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If installed per the install manual for the 340, yes, the switch puts the transponder in standby; presumably that holds for the old xpdr also.
FlyQ seems to work fine with our iLevil2 which is simultaneously supporting a variety of Android apps on my variety of Android devices at the same time. (Wife has Apple devices, I have Android). I can't qualitatively compare the ADS-B decoding though, beyond that every plane called out by ATC was seen first on FlyQ, along with many more. Wife ditched Foreflight for FlyQ because we needed an ADS-B receiver which was supported by an Android app. (I'm greedy and don't want her to have all the fun.) She was a Foreflight bigot, but so far she's loving FlyQ. |
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compasst ![]() Senior Member ![]() Joined: 22 Feb 2015 Location: Akron, OH Status: Offline Points: 176 |
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On a flight yesterday and again today in a non-avidyne-equipped airplane, I confirmed that FlyQ stops processing the ADS-B datastring at random times and does not start processing again without restarting either FlyQ or Stratus. Today I had a second iPad running ForeFlight and connected to same Stratus 2S - that iPad continuously and properly processed the ADS-B data. After several separate stops of processing the ADSB data in FlyQ, each followed by clean reboot and starting FlyQ alone, I did have over an hour of FlyQ properly processing the data. I can tell you that it doesn't make any difference whether ForeFlight is 'running' or not (it doesn't really run since iPad doesn't support multiple programs running at the same time).
I no longer have the Clarity SV GPS unit, but I did have same problem with that unit and FlyQ.
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MysticCobra ![]() Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: 29 Jan 2013 Status: Offline Points: 656 |
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Isn't the Stratus only officially supported by Foreflight? I thought they were so closely linked that Stratus had even issued some firmware updates that broke the reverse-engineered support that other moving map folks had created. (I don't have iOS devices so I don't use FF or Stratus, but I thought it was no secret that they were married to each other and "not seeing other people", so to speak.)
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