Connecting with an NGT 9000 |
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skitheo
Senior Member Joined: 02 Jan 2016 Location: KFNL Status: Offline Points: 165 |
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Posted: 22 Sep 2018 at 1:53am |
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Thanks for the information Alex. As a firmware engineer of 30 years with a BS+MS in EE, leaving the details to the installer is not an option. :-)
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oskrypuch
Senior Member Joined: 09 Nov 2012 Location: CYFD Status: Offline Points: 3057 |
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And, there is a $$ promotion on right now, for the 9000 + IFD.
* Orest |
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afassas
Groupie Joined: 21 Jun 2017 Location: KRGA Status: Offline Points: 68 |
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There is not any upgrade or minimum version required on the NGT-9000. The NGT-9000 sends traffic only out its ARINC429 port; it sends both traffic and FIS weather out its RS-422 port. Only requirement is that the NGT-9000 RS-422 out be wired in a particular way to the IFD-540 RS-232 in. Then the settings on each device for their respective ports are set to 'high speed'. I am not an installer. The ability to set the IFD's baud rate to the 'high speed' setting did not exist until version 10.2.1. Leave the details to your installer. |
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Alex Fassas
Avidyne IFD-540 Lynx NGT-9000+ Aspen MAX PFD1000, MFD1000 & MFD500 Beech A36 KRGA |
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skitheo
Senior Member Joined: 02 Jan 2016 Location: KFNL Status: Offline Points: 165 |
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OK, it's official now. What do I need to do to get full functionality display on the IFD540? Running 10.2.1 right now. Looks like installer configured the TIS-B data on the ARINC429 connection. Is there a specific NGT-9000 firmware version required? Does it require RS-232? Should be able to just move pins on both boxes, correct?
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Derjr2
Newbie Joined: 10 Mar 2017 Location: Lakeland, fl Status: Offline Points: 3 |
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By the way, the speed on the ngt9000 is 115200 for the aspen, so it is high speed which hopefully will provide better thru put.
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Derjr2
Newbie Joined: 10 Mar 2017 Location: Lakeland, fl Status: Offline Points: 3 |
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I did the 10.2.1 for a customer today. He had aspen, ngt900, and ifd540. Prior to today, he had wx and traffic on aspen from ngt9000, nothing on ifd540 because of baud rate conflicts. Now, with 10.2.1, we changed the format to capstone HS wx and traffic. The ngt9000 data feeding the aspen now also feeds the ifd540 and seems to work properly. I verified traffic, metars, winds aloft, there was no actual nexrad near me to see, but the shaded out lines weren’t there, so I’m guessing that’s good also. The owner will fly it soon and give me a report, but I think it’s good!
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Catani
Senior Member Joined: 21 Jan 2016 Status: Offline Points: 362 |
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Do you get the full ADS-B traffic symbology the NGT-9000 provides on its own display, also displayed on the IFD540, or just the simple traffic icons?
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Freff
Newbie Joined: 01 Oct 2015 Status: Offline Points: 25 |
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My IFD540 has been displaying TIS-B and FIS-B weather from my NGT-9000 since 10.2.0 was installed. I have some missing blocks sometimes in the nexrad but I am hopeful that the baud rate increase in 10.2.1 resolves that.
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skitheo
Senior Member Joined: 02 Jan 2016 Location: KFNL Status: Offline Points: 165 |
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It was a little confusing in the 10.2.1 thread: Is the NGT-9000 TIS-B and FIS-B data feed supported or not?
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AviSimpson
Senior Member Joined: 31 Mar 2015 Location: Lincoln, MA Status: Offline Points: 765 |
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Progress on the 115.2 baud rate? Yes, still slated for an upcoming release.
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Simpson Bennett
Avidyne Corporation Product Manager |
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skitheo
Senior Member Joined: 02 Jan 2016 Location: KFNL Status: Offline Points: 165 |
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Any progress to report? AviJake or AviSimpson?
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n7ifr
Senior Member Joined: 05 Aug 2013 Location: Scottsdale, Az Status: Offline Points: 470 |
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Does anybody on forum have experience and/or photos of
GTX345 displaying ADSB Traffic & Wx on the 540's? Also, assuming GTX345 does play with our 540's, will the 540 internal WiFi allow: . ADSB Wx ADSB Wx downloads to iPad Apps? . full 540 Apt Info integration - like Density Altitude etc. Thanks. Tom W. |
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AzAv8r
Senior Member Joined: 06 Dec 2011 Location: Arizona Status: Offline Points: 154 |
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Great news Simpson. Thanks.
PS - Which of the NGT serial rates does the IFD presently support? I didn't see it in the Installation Manual - is it in there? Edited by AzAv8r - 05 Apr 2017 at 8:23pm |
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oskrypuch
Senior Member Joined: 09 Nov 2012 Location: CYFD Status: Offline Points: 3057 |
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Then that may well solve that one issue, connecting to both an ASPEN & IFD. *Orest Edited by oskrypuch - 05 Apr 2017 at 10:36am |
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AviSimpson
Senior Member Joined: 31 Mar 2015 Location: Lincoln, MA Status: Offline Points: 765 |
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115200 will be supported in a future release.
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Simpson Bennett
Avidyne Corporation Product Manager |
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AzAv8r
Senior Member Joined: 06 Dec 2011 Location: Arizona Status: Offline Points: 154 |
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Ouch. The NGT has a configurable baud rate (38400, 57600, or 115200). But neither Aspen nor the IFD allow it to be explicitly configured. The Aspen manual specifies that the NGT should be configured with the 115200 rate, but I'm not finding anything in the 10.2 IFD IM which indicates what rate is used.
One might be able to get a rate converter to work, but that feels like a science project. |
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Freff
Newbie Joined: 01 Oct 2015 Status: Offline Points: 25 |
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These are the three photos that L3 sent to me demonstrating the integration
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Freff
Newbie Joined: 01 Oct 2015 Status: Offline Points: 25 |
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I have been asking Avidyne and L3 about this.
Avidyne told me this "yes, we STCd the GTX345 with the IFD5-Series and IFD4-Series. The Lynx is certified with it's own external GPS as position source for ADS-B OUT, which is what the requirement calls for. Our new R10.2 software allows for display of the ADS-B Wx & Traffic from Lynx and GTX345." L3 told me this. Thanks for your email regarding the Lynx NGT-9000 and Avidyne IFD540.
The NGT-9000 outputs ADS-B traffic and weather on an RS-422 serial databus using the popular GDL-90 protocol. With software 10.2 to the IFD540, the 540 is compatible with the GDL-90 protocol, which means the IFD will display weather and traffic information from the NGT-9000. The wiring interface involves the RS-422 out connected to the RS-232 in at the IFD.
Attached are some pictures we took during our test flight several months ago showing ADS-B traffic and some of the FIS-B weather products that the IFD was receiving from the NGT-9000.
I then asked L3 if some sort of adapter was required between the two units to convert RS422 to RS232 and was told this No adapter required. Simply wire one side of the 422 at the Lynx to the 232 input at the IFD. There's a wiring interconnect drawing in the NGT-9000 manual for the IFD interface. One word of caution...currently you can't interface the 9000 to the IFD and an Aspen EFD display because the two displays use different baud rate settings for the 422/232. In an aircraft that has IFDs and EFDs, one would have to choose which display will be interfaced to the NGT-9000.
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AzAv8r
Senior Member Joined: 06 Dec 2011 Location: Arizona Status: Offline Points: 154 |
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Cardinal Flyers mailing list reported this from Sun 'n Fun Avidyne CEO Press Conference:
"ADS-B boxes supported are Avidyne, Garmin and Capstone L3NGT900" If only we had documentation... |
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AzAv8r
Senior Member Joined: 06 Dec 2011 Location: Arizona Status: Offline Points: 154 |
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Thanks Orest
I do not recall seeing the ADS-B symbology on my flight back from San Diego last Sunday. But we are using the 429/735A interface. And I'm pretty confident there is no weather over the 429, since nobody has defined a standard. So the implication is a RS-422/RS-232 connection as Aspen uses is necessary. Was there any mention of this? (Or in fact, the required IFD config, since the 10.2 docs only provide for the MLB100, if I read them correctly.) Or of an approval basis (beyond NORSEE)? (I'll ask my shop to call L3, but the more information I can provide the higher the probability of a favorable outcome.) |
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oskrypuch
Senior Member Joined: 09 Nov 2012 Location: CYFD Status: Offline Points: 3057 |
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It was reported, actually on the Bonanza forums by L3, that the Lynx9000 and the IFD units are now compatible and legal for TIS-B & FIS-B display. Firmware 10.2 will now display the new ADS-B topology for traffic, if it is a TIS-B source.
* Orest |
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bonanza82jt
Newbie Joined: 24 Mar 2017 Location: Kalifornia Status: Offline Points: 1 |
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I stumbled upon this because I have an NGT-9000, and I'm shopping for something that will play well with it. Maybe I have to go Garmin, but I wanted to give Avidyne a chance. Is the traffic displayed with the ADS-B symbolism or is it the old style? Is anybody getting ADS-B weather from NGT-9000 to display on Avidyne (I'm thinking IFD440) ? Anybody bootlegged the 422 -> 232 connection? With WiFi getting to be so common seems like they could just communicate that way (they both have it). THat would be too easy I guess.
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AzAv8r
Senior Member Joined: 06 Dec 2011 Location: Arizona Status: Offline Points: 154 |
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I can report traffic now works properly using the 429 interface with the NGT 9000. No more "Traffic Sensor Faults", at least during a 30 minute local flight where previously (10.1.1.0) such alerts were virtually continuous.
The 10.2 installation manual does not appear to provide any additional basis for connecting an NGT9000. Traffic can be connected via 429 as "Skywatch". The errors reported in the terminal area pre 10.2 disappeared. But there is no mention of it for a weather connection. I *suspect* a 422 -> 232 serial connection as the Aspen uses would work, configure for an MLB100, but (a) that is speculation, and (b) you'll need to convince your A&P or repair facility to sign the book, and your IA to bless. For the time being, we will continue to consider the IFD wireless useless, and use the NGT 9000 wireless to put WX and Traffic on our portable devices. I look forward to a complete solution from Avidyne. Kudos for putting in a WiFi client mode, and as advertised in the 10.2 PG (page 52), forwarding Traffic and Wx received from other devices across the WiFi. Once that feature works for us, we'll use it! |
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Freff
Newbie Joined: 01 Oct 2015 Status: Offline Points: 25 |
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I am also interested in learning exactly what functionality works when sending ADSB In from a NGT-9000 to the IFD540 using 10.2. Are there limitations? is everything displayed properly? I would really appreciate first hand experience if anyone has done this already before I commit to the purchase.
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skitheo
Senior Member Joined: 02 Jan 2016 Location: KFNL Status: Offline Points: 165 |
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Does traffic show velocity vectors? Is weather METARS, NEXRAD, winds, AIRMETS, or all of the above? |
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AzAv8r
Senior Member Joined: 06 Dec 2011 Location: Arizona Status: Offline Points: 154 |
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The NGT9000 has an ARINC 429 output for traffic, and RS422 for traffic and weather. RS422 is essentially a differential version of the RS232 interface. Earlier Avidyne said the RS232 interface would be required to interface to the NGT. It is possible in some (many) cases for an RS422 output to drive an RS232 input if you are careful with the wiring. Aspen does this. But:
The Aspen Installation manual has an appendix for the NGT9000 which explicitly states that nothing else can be connected to the NGT when it is used to drive an Aspen in this manner. What that really means is "our approval of this is contingent on the NGT only driving up to 3 Aspen devices". I don't think that really means your installer cannot connect it to the Avidyne, but it means (at least) that the installer and owner are responsible for ensuring that it works, because Aspen hasn't. If you do not have a full suite (3) of Aspen displays, I'd be very surprised if connecting to the Avidyne didn't work just fine. If you have 3 Aspens and then extend the chain to an IFD or two, your risk increases, but I suspect it would work. But you need someone to sign it off. |
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ac11
Groupie Joined: 21 Aug 2016 Location: SF Bay Area Status: Offline Points: 98 |
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My installer said he was unable to have the Lynx connected to both the Aspen and the IFD540 at the same time. Does someone have this configuration working?
I opted to have the Lynx connected to the Aspen because the Lynx already has traffic callouts, and I can turn on/off traffic and/or weather on the Aspen at will. I don't see such options on the 540, and fear that I will have both the Lynx and the 540 sending out alerts at the same time. |
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Apiaguy
Newbie Joined: 05 Jan 2016 Location: Usa Status: Offline Points: 35 |
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and now he has confirmed that yes, the 9000 will interface via hard wire connection to the IFD to provide traffic and weather! Awesome.. now have to schedule with avionics installer to get er hooked up!
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Apiaguy
Newbie Joined: 05 Jan 2016 Location: Usa Status: Offline Points: 35 |
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https://www.beechtalk.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=135509&start=45
Steve Rutherford was the poster... His post is vague as to the interconnectivity
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oskrypuch
Senior Member Joined: 09 Nov 2012 Location: CYFD Status: Offline Points: 3057 |
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Do you have a link? That would be big news.
* Orest |
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Apiaguy
Newbie Joined: 05 Jan 2016 Location: Usa Status: Offline Points: 35 |
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an L3 guy just posted on beechtalk that the 9000 will now display traffic and weather on the ifd's...
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oskrypuch
Senior Member Joined: 09 Nov 2012 Location: CYFD Status: Offline Points: 3057 |
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Frustratingly, my plane is down with a Mag problem, now going on three weeks. * Orest |
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skitheo
Senior Member Joined: 02 Jan 2016 Location: KFNL Status: Offline Points: 165 |
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Any news on the IFD540 connection to the L3 Lynx NGT9000? Orest, have you flown yet with 10.2?
Edited by skitheo - 15 Mar 2017 at 1:01am |
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skitheo
Senior Member Joined: 02 Jan 2016 Location: KFNL Status: Offline Points: 165 |
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Does anyone know if this "traffic sensor failure" will be fixed in version 10.2? BTW,when will we get 10.2?
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Apiaguy
Newbie Joined: 05 Jan 2016 Location: Usa Status: Offline Points: 35 |
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yeah so most of my flights are in sparsly populated Idaho... I flew to Sacramento this weekend and got the traffic sensor failure all day long when near the major airspaces... Once headed away 80-100nm no more failures.
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skitheo
Senior Member Joined: 02 Jan 2016 Location: KFNL Status: Offline Points: 165 |
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Traffic Sensor Failure occurs many times when flying in the vicinity (80nm?) of PDX, SEA, et al. Not so much when not much traffic is visible to ADS-B receiver.
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AzAv8r
Senior Member Joined: 06 Dec 2011 Location: Arizona Status: Offline Points: 154 |
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It worked reliably on the ground checkout (5 minutes?) the week before the test flight. On the test flight, it worked for about two minutes after startup, and about the time I pushed the throttle forward to taxi out the failure appeared. Since I was testing other work, I went ahead with the flight. As I pulled off the runway after landing, the traffic reappeared and remained (no more failures during the taxi back to the hangar.) The
The L3 had to be set to "TIF". "DTIF" won't work (we tried). The L3 can be set to "Both". Someone at the airport suggested that using "Both" could cause failures also. Perhaps that configuration can also cause intermittent traffic. |
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TangoCharlie
Newbie Joined: 31 May 2016 Location: KISP Status: Offline Points: 17 |
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Interesting, thanks. Do you fly in areas with high traffic density? One thing I did notice is that when flying late at night or in areas with little traffic, it seems to work for longer periods of time. And, can you tell us the configuration settings you're using? |
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--Mark M
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Apiaguy
Newbie Joined: 05 Jan 2016 Location: Usa Status: Offline Points: 35 |
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I had the traffic failure message for the first two flights after turning on the 9000 traffic to the 540...It would work for a while, then blitz for a few seconds then back on.... now I never get it (or almost never) and it works fine. Never a problem for the ex600 displaying it... it's always correct.
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TangoCharlie
Newbie Joined: 31 May 2016 Location: KISP Status: Offline Points: 17 |
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Traffic "flickered" with the bad connection. Traffic would be rendered for a second or so, then it would disappear and I'd get a traffic sensor failure message. At random intervals it would reappear then disappear.Unfortunately, I bet you don't have a loose connection. This is the best behavior I was able to get out of trying to get traffic from the Lynx to the IFD540. Traffic appears briefly, then a failure message, and this repeats every few minutes. I am "Really Hoping" the IFD software is upgraded to make this compatible. But I've had the setup for almost a year now, and from what I read here, even 10.2 won't provide Lynx compatibility. We are thinking of replacing our second IFD with an MFD that will display things from other products. But if you do get this working, I'm eager to hear; I've already given up hope (for 10.1.x anyway). |
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--Mark M
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AzAv8r
Senior Member Joined: 06 Dec 2011 Location: Arizona Status: Offline Points: 154 |
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No ADS-B weather. The NGT sends the full set of ADS-B over the RS-422/RS-232 lines, but only the Traffic (in TAS format) over the ARINC-429. I only have the ARINC connected (the RS422 goes to the Aspens).
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ac11
Groupie Joined: 21 Aug 2016 Location: SF Bay Area Status: Offline Points: 98 |
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Did you get FIS-B weather at all on the 540?
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AzAv8r
Senior Member Joined: 06 Dec 2011 Location: Arizona Status: Offline Points: 154 |
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Alas, on my test flight I discovered the connection between the NGT and the IFD was intermittent, almost certainly a 429 pin or socket not fully inserted in the body of the connector.
That's why we do test flights. But I'm pretty confident the TIS-B traffic was being displayed, since the quantity of targets appeared to jump dramatically at pattern altitude (where I was receiving the ADS-B ground station). Traffic "flickered" with the bad connection. Traffic would be rendered for a second or so, then it would disappear and I'd get a traffic sensor failure message. At random intervals it would reappear then disappear. |
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ac11
Groupie Joined: 21 Aug 2016 Location: SF Bay Area Status: Offline Points: 98 |
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I'm hoping this gets worked out as well. In a recent presentation by L3, L3 is claiming the NGT9000 will work with the 540 when 10.2 comes out. Since the NGT9000 sends traffic and weather to an Aspen, could the Aspen forward this data on to the 540?
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Bad1996
Senior Member Joined: 11 Feb 2015 Location: Dalton, Ga. Status: Offline Points: 103 |
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It will be interesting to see if you get the normal error message on the 540. Personally after using the Lynx and the 540 both, It's not a huge deal to me that the traffic displays on the 540. That is due to my Lynx display being very visible. Like the iPad (Foreflight) it is cluttered with a LOT of stuff and makes traffic hard to see. Many times I will set the iPad to "street map" and then without internet it's basically a clear background and easy to see traffic. |
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AzAv8r
Senior Member Joined: 06 Dec 2011 Location: Arizona Status: Offline Points: 154 |
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I can't answer about the 440, but I'd really expect it to work there also.
This was just setup yesterday and I've not test-flown it. I've only have the basic Lynx (Mode-S / dual-band ADS-B in, no TAS, no diversity). For the initial checkout I was sitting on the ground getting ADS-B directly from aircraft, no ADS-B rebroadcast or TIS-B because of my altitude. I'll do a test flight this weekend. I know I'll be able to pick up an ADS-B Ground Station by the time I reach pattern altitude. As others have suggested, only the TAS symbology though; not the newer "Asteroids" darts that ADS-B displays typically have. |
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Catani
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AzAv8r
Senior Member Joined: 06 Dec 2011 Location: Arizona Status: Offline Points: 154 |
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Since it is not clear from the earlier posts:
The 540 displays Lynx traffic, but not weather. The traffic is delivered via the 429 bus. On the 540: Set the connected 429 port (#1 on our box) to "high speed", "Traffic Advisory". On the L3: - Enable "CDTI" - Set the traffic format to "TIF", NOT "DTIF" I suspect a piece of the compatibility issue that AviJake mentioned is the fact that the NGT only delivers ADS-B via RS-422, and the IFD doesn't have 422. The Aspen doesn't either, but 422 is essentially differential 232, so Aspen just connected one side. It is possible the Avidyne just doesn't have enough noise immunity to do this, or doesn't want to verify it. And the Aspen instructions for connecting in that manner disallow any non Aspen devices being connected. Actually the NGT does deliver RS-232 ADS-B, but that is dedicated to their external WiFi transmitter. I suspect that could be made to work just fine, but there is that whole approval consideration: both companies would probably need to assert (and prove) to the FAA that it was safe. |
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BobsV35B
Senior Member Joined: 24 Aug 2011 Location: Downers Grove, Status: Offline Points: 131 |
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Thanks Much!
Knew about the Combo VHF and GPS. Used one on Bob II's S35 with the Avidyne 540. Will check with my shop on the splitter. Thank you both. Happy Skies, Old Bob
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Old Bob, Ancient Aviator
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AzAv8r
Senior Member Joined: 06 Dec 2011 Location: Arizona Status: Offline Points: 154 |
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My avionics shop told me GPS antenna splitters were used with the Lynx and other equipment, including the IFD. Won't save you much money since the splitters which will power an antenna aren't cheap. But you won't be poking another hole in the skin of your airplane.
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