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freq function

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Melohn View Drop Down
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    Posted: 12 Apr 2024 at 9:02pm
When I use the trainer, and enter a flight plan of airport A, B, C, and then back to A, while I’m enroute between A and B, I get the ATIS and tower frequency information for airport B, and after B, I get the information for airport C.

When I’m in the aircraft, at the same position, and enroute between A and B or B and C, I still get the information for airport A. This is not the case with the PROC button, which shows the correct next airport in my plan.

What am I doing wrong with the panel mount IFD 440, versus the simulator?


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AviSteve View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AviSteve Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Apr 2024 at 9:17am
I don't understand the question.

1) "... while I'm enroute between A and B, I get the ATIS and tower...".  Are you saying you get the ATIS and Tower frequencies on the frequency list?  If so, which tab?

2) "This is not the case with the PROC button, ..."  What does this have to do with frequencies or the next airport?
Steve Lindsley
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Melohn View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Melohn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Apr 2024 at 2:20pm
Originally posted by AviSteve AviSteve wrote:

I don't understand the question.

1) "... while I'm enroute between A and B, I get the ATIS and tower...".  Are you saying you get the ATIS and Tower frequencies on the frequency list?  If so, which tab?

2) "This is not the case with the PROC button, ..."  What does this have to do with frequencies or the next airport?

I should have been clearer. The Airport tab, which is the first tab that comes up on the Frequency page, is where I see frequencies associated with the ATIS or tower. If I fly from point A to point B, I reliably see the information about the destination airport once I’ve departed the origin airport.

If I include a series of airports along my route, the Airports tab, in the simulator, will show the information for each of these airports as I approach them. IRL, I only see the destination Airport’s information in this tab, and when the flight is a round robin coming back to the origin airport, it means I just see the same information in this tab all the time.

I pointed out how the PROC function works since this is how I expected the FREQ function to work; it shows the procedures available for the next airport in the flight plan, and subsequent presses of the PROC key advance from airport to airport in the flight plan. You can’t push the FREQ key multiple times on the 440, which doesn’t have a FREQ button, but it should still show the information for the next airport in the flight plan, as it does in the simulator.

Why is this useful? The Frequency Enroute tab provides many of the frequencies that you might want in terms of flight following, including Centers, Approach Controls, and even FSSes. It doesn’t include tower airspace frequencies that you might fly through and want to request a transition of, or just check the ATIS as you overfly.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AviSteve Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Apr 2024 at 5:32pm
So if you put in the exact same flight plan and execute it in the exact same way, the frequencies in the airport tab are different between the simulator and real life?  The algorithm is based on whether an airport is designated as a destination, so if you have an approach on one in real life that you don't in the simulator, that would make a difference.

The PROC key is completely different from the FREQ key, which doesn't even apply to the 440 (as you said).  On a 540, successive presses of the FREQ key switches the selected frequency list tab.

Assuming there is not a bug causing a difference in behavior between the simulator and the real system, this sounds to me like a feature request.  The request is to change the way that the frequency list works or is organized such that you will see frequencies for the nearest airport or the next airport in the flight plan.  If you want to provide a better description of the request, I'd be glad to capture that.

In the meantime, I would suggest that you try using the Nearest page to see if that meets your needs.  Go to the nearest page showing airports and then put the cursor on the first entry in the list.  Then touch the INFO tab and you will see a Paste button containing the identifier of the nearest airport that you had selected.  Press the Paste button and then expand the communications category.  Select the desired frequency to tune from that page.
Steve Lindsley
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Melohn View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Melohn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Apr 2024 at 12:21am
I’ll try doing exactly the same flight plan in the plane as the simulator. 

The only difference between the two now is loading the flight plan in the plane from ForeFlight, which as you know doesn’t understand multiple destinations in a flight plan.

Still, I would have thought importing the waypoints into a stored IFD route would have made each airport waypoint a potential “destination” along the route.

I’ll try this later this week and report back. 

I don’t want an enhancement; the way it works in the simulator is exactly how I’d like it to work, but perhaps importing a flight plan has some unexpected impact on the way it works. 

I’ll see if I can reproduce the behavior by importing a flight plan into the simulator from ForeFlight.

Thanks!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Melohn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Apr 2024 at 9:12pm
I was able to reproduce the issue in the panel, and now in the simulator as well.

If you directly enter a flight plan of origin A, airport B, airport C, back to airport A in the panel or simulator, you will get the expected behavior. The frequency function, airport tab, will initially show the frequencies for Airport A. After takeoff, with the plan activated, you will then see the frequencies for Airport B. You’ll also see frequencies for Airport C if there is room on the frequency->Airport tab. Nice!

This process continues as you sequence from airport to airport, always providing the next destination airport information, and the information for the airport after that, as space permits.


If you load the exact same plan from ForeFlight as a saved route on the IFD, you will see the same sequence of waypoints, which you can then load as the active flight plan, and execute. The airport waypoints will show in blue, exactly as though you had entered them manually.

However, now you will only ever see the frequency information for Airport A, regardless of where you are in the sequence.


In addition, if you press the PROC key, and select an approach for any of the airports along the route, the frequency function, Airport tab will now show the frequencies associated with that airport. With subsequent presses of the PROC key, you can load an approach for each airport, and the frequency function will work exactly as though you had entered the waypoints into the panel.

So, I think this is a bug, and I believe that the selection of an approach is an adequate work around, although eventually it would make sense to make the behavior consistent whether waypoints are entered into the IFD directly or transferred from ForeFlight.

Sorry this was so hard to explain.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Melohn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Apr 2024 at 9:31pm
P.S. Once I got this to show the same results with the simulator, I tried to enter approaches into ForeFlight for each airport, and no surprise, the imported flight plan contained only the approach procedure for the last airport in the flight plan. That suggests a ForeFlight limitation that doesn’t exist in the IFD, and may be part of why imported flight plans can only have a single destination waypoint.

The problem is that there is no way to know whether a flight plan was imported from ForeFlight with this restriction, since airport waypoints all show as blue.

I then tried to add an approach only for Airport B, with the rest of the airports as ForeFlight waypoints. I transferred that flight plan to the IFD, and loaded and activated it.  This not only worked on departure for the frequencies at Airport A, it showed the frequencies for Airport B, and then showed the frequencies for Airport C..



Edited by Melohn - 17 Apr 2024 at 9:53pm
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