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Marilyn View Drop Down
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    Posted: 09 Jul 2021 at 4:23pm
I have an IFD440 and 2 G5s.    I had a return flight to my home base of KHHR set in the IFD440 ending with the Localizer 25 approach.     With the IFD440 set to VLOC and the localizer frequency set as active in the IFD440, while tracking the localize inbound, I assumed that the G5 would have had the localizer course automatically set.   But the needle was at 90 degrees, so I had to go to the top G5 to manually set the localizer course to 250.      Is that the normal behavior on the G5?  
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Originally posted by Marilyn Marilyn wrote:

I have an IFD440 and 2 G5s.    I had a return flight to my home base of KHHR set in the IFD440 ending with the Localizer 25 approach.     With the IFD440 set to VLOC and the localizer frequency set as active in the IFD440, while tracking the localize inbound, I assumed that the G5 would have had the localizer course automatically set.   But the needle was at 90 degrees, so I had to go to the top G5 to manually set the localizer course to 250.      Is that the normal behavior on the G5?  

In my experience with a localizer-type navaid approaches with G5’s, if the approach loaded into the IFD and the IFD has auto tuned the navaid as the active VHF nav frequency, the G5 shows the localizer-type front course when switching to VLOC either manually or automatically. If the approach is based on a VOR, then the desired approach course needs to be set manually in the G5.
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Marilyn View Drop Down
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Points: 15 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Marilyn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jul 2021 at 6:24pm
Hmmm.  Wonder why I am having to manually set the course into the G5 then.  Maybe I should contact Garmin, not that they would necessarily know how the G5 works with Avidyne.  
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Points: 190 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rolfe_tessem Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jul 2021 at 1:37pm
I've never seen a setup in which you had to set a localizer course manually. Of course, good practice suggests that we set it as a reminder of the inbound course, but even on the analog stuff in use for decades, you never needed to set the course for the indicator to work properly.

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I think there is some confusion, the localizer you should not need to be adjusted the course select pointer as the localizer will always read correctly regardless of what course is set on the display, of course if you don't select the proper inbound course on an HSI it can be confusing to look at.  A normal VOR indicator doesn't really matter but again most pilots set the inbound course on those too.

I think the question needs to be clarified and what I believe you are asking is, should the G5 HSI automatically set the course select pointer to the desired inbound course?  eg auto slewing without manual intervention? 

I don't know the answer as I still have a mechanical HSI, ask me when it dies and I replace it with a G5 :)
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Marilyn View Drop Down
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Points: 15 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Marilyn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jul 2021 at 6:04pm
Yes - that is exactly the question:   should the G5 HSI automatically set the course select pointer to the desired inbound course?  eg auto slewing without manual intervention? 
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I just took a quick look through the manual, I have a G5 as an AI but it is the same manual for the HSI version and I don't see anything about it automatically slewing to the desired course.

I still could be wrong but I don't see anything there about it, I'm not sure if I would want the course pointer to be set automatically for a VOR or localizer signal, too many reasons you might want to set it manually. 

I could however see it being set automatically for navigating between GPS waypoints if GPS navigation is selected.
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Thanks!
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FWIW - My IFD540 and dual G5 configuration automatically slews for localizer-type navaids when going to VLOC as well as for GPS courses (except OBS mode GPS courses).
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Interesting, what does it do for a BC?  Granted there aren't too many of them left, last check there are 62 of them under the FAA's control.
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Originally posted by PA23 PA23 wrote:

Interesting, what does it do for a BC?  Granted there aren't too many of them left, last check there are 62 of them under the FAA's control.

On a BC approach, the G5 will automatically slew the HSI course to the localizer front course when going from GPS to VLOC. We still have several BC approaches in the area and I have specifically tested that feature.


Edited by dmtidler - 12 Jul 2021 at 8:46pm
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so I guess you answered Marilyn's question, for a localizer it will skew automatically, sounds like something is not enabled either on the IFD or on the G5
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Marilyn View Drop Down
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Points: 15 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Marilyn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jul 2021 at 2:06pm
Hmmmm.  I talked to Gary Reeves last night.  Yes, we know that the IFD's automatically switch from GPS to VLOC.  But - his recommendations for VOR, LOC, and ILS approaches are the following:

1.  Always manually switch from GPS to VLOC early on, since the switch to VLOC doesn't happen until 1 mile from (I think he said the FAF)

2.  Always set the coarse into the G5    He said that the G5s do not automatically get the course set from the IFDs for those types of approaches.  Yes, the needle is pointing where it should be on the LOC / ILS approaches.   But, in my case, when looking at the HSI which has the course set to where it was last used, makes for a confusing view of the HSI when not manually set to the inbound Localizer course.
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Originally posted by Marilyn Marilyn wrote:

Hmmmm.  I talked to Gary Reeves last night.  Yes, we know that the IFD's automatically switch from GPS to VLOC.  But - his recommendations for VOR, LOC, and ILS approaches are the following:

1.  Always manually switch from GPS to VLOC early on, since the switch to VLOC doesn't happen until 1 mile from (I think he said the FAF)

2.  Always set the coarse into the G5    He said that the G5s do not automatically get the course set from the IFDs for those types of approaches.  Yes, the needle is pointing where it should be on the LOC / ILS approaches.   But, in my case, when looking at the HSI which has the course set to where it was last used, makes for a confusing view of the HSI when not manually set to the inbound Localizer course.

With regards to point one, below are the GPS to VLOC capture criteria from the IFD540 Pilot's Guide:

To trigger the transition from armed VLOC to active VLOC, all of the following capture criteria must be met:

  • The tuned frequency in the nav radio matches that of the approach navaid
  • The Morse code decoded by the tuned nav radio matches the identifier of the approach navaid 
  • The aircraft track is within 15° of the final approach course 
  • The course to the active waypoint is within 45° of the final approach course 
  • The radio deviations are at most 50% of full scale for 5 consecutive seconds 
  • The active leg is part of the approach up to and including the final approach fix  
There is nothing in the above list that references any specific distance prior to the FAF that triggers the automatic transition to VLOC. I can envision with some close in vectors to a FAF that all the above conditions may not be satisfied until within approximately a mile of the FAF; however, I regularly see the IFD meet these conditions and automatically switch to VLOC well prior to that. I personally have found the automatic transition to VLOC to generally be predicable and reliable. 

Those are certainly some good techniques to use if your unsure or uncomfortable with the automatic VLOC transition point as well as techniques for those HSI's and CDI's that do not automatically slew courses. 

Apparently, I'm going to have to somehow inform my G5's that they shouldn't be automatically slewing to the localizer front course on approaches using localizer-type navaids because Gary Reeves says that the IFD and G5 combination does not do that:)  
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I have an IFD550/440 and dual G5s. For an ILS, my G5 HSI does not automatically set the inbound/BC ILS course on the HSI either. I have to manually turn in the inbound/BC on the G5. It would be nice if this was an automatic feature, but mine was not set up to set the course automatically either.
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Points: 619 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dmtidler Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jul 2021 at 6:04pm
I tested the auto-slew on my IFD540, dual G5 combination last night and it generally works as I advertised above for localizer-type approaches (ILS, LOC, LOC BC, LDA, etc.); however, I did come across one anomaly if there are multiple types of localizer-type approaches selected in the active flight plan with one of them being a LOC BC.

If a LOC BC is selected in the active flight plan as the first of multiple localizer-type approaches in the active flight plan, the auto-slew for the LOC BC will be correct (i.e. the G5 HSI will auto-slew to the localizer front course) and all subsequent non-LOC BC localizer-type approaches will auto-slew to the reciprocal of the localizer front course. 

Conversely, if the first of multiple localizer-type approaches is not a LOC BC, then the G5 HSI will correctly auto-slew to the localizer front course for all of the non-LOC BC localizer-type approaches; however, the G5 HSI will auto-slew to the approach course on a LOC BC instead of the LOC front course in this instance.

In both instances above, clearing out the selected localizer-type approaches that are in the active flight plan prior to the current localizer-type approach yields a correct G5 HSI auto-slew.


Edited by dmtidler - 19 Jul 2021 at 8:47pm
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