APP Design for 540/440 |
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ddgates
Senior Member Joined: 12 Aug 2011 Location: Deer Valley Status: Offline Points: 1100 |
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Posted: 09 Jan 2016 at 5:47pm |
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Here's a tongue in cheek challenge to the AviLive crew (meaning users not Avidyne staff):
What would the ideal app have and do with a bidirectional data stream with the 540/440? Yes, we are waiting for the commercial developers to include us in what they already have coded, but if you were going to provision an app de novo, what would it have or do? Probably some on this board can write apps, and use Avidyne's SDK. I can do FORTRAN, VX REXX, Object Pascal, and some C++. That isn't going to get it. A team project?????? David Edited by ddgates - 09 Jan 2016 at 5:48pm |
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David Gates
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safari
Groupie Joined: 28 Apr 2014 Location: Sedona Status: Offline Points: 55 |
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Great Idea
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Dave
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ddgates
Senior Member Joined: 12 Aug 2011 Location: Deer Valley Status: Offline Points: 1100 |
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Welcome back, Dave.
Eager to hear about your trip. You should create a separate thread about that trip and pepper it with how your avidyne gear supported that trip. Let's fly soon! David
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David Gates
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brou0040
Senior Member Joined: 13 Dec 2012 Location: KIYK Status: Offline Points: 720 |
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From my post in 2013:
I wonder how hard it would be to take the tablet simulator and turn that into an in-flight usable software application, call it the IFD-340. If it already has all the features running the real code, couldn't you just supply live GPS from the tablet to the simulator and essentially have a fully functioning application? Then you can flight plan at home on your IFD-340 and upload that to the 540. Ideally, data would sync just like the panel mounted IFDs. The only difference is that the tablet app would not have an additional nav/com radio. The nav and com freq boxes on the app could be additional standby frequencies. You could have the screens configured differently and additional map datablocks. Since they already have windows and ios sims, hopefully they could support both platforms equally as easy. AviJake, I assume you wouldn't release your sim code and I'm not available to commit any time to this project, but could you talk with your team and see if you could support providing a "black box" executable that a wrapper app could be written by any forum members that are up for the project to create something like this? Without knowing the details of the SDK, can you let us know what features could or could not be implemented in this type of app?
Edited by brou0040 - 09 Jan 2016 at 6:53pm |
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ddgates
Senior Member Joined: 12 Aug 2011 Location: Deer Valley Status: Offline Points: 1100 |
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Only disconnect I see is that if you give users a second IFD XXX equivalent by tablet, why would they buy the backup/companion? (I have twin 540s)
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David Gates
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safari
Groupie Joined: 28 Apr 2014 Location: Sedona Status: Offline Points: 55 |
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Yes glad to be back in the US after about 40 days in Central and South America to be specific 28 in Colombia and the rest in Panama and Guatemala. As far as what would be nice in the app would be if we had an app that would take the adsb weather and traffic off the iPad and display it on the 540 and vice versa. Well the more 540's that are installed the bigger chance of more apps.
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Dave
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brou0040
Senior Member Joined: 13 Dec 2012 Location: KIYK Status: Offline Points: 720 |
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Shhhh, that is the only reason Avidyne wouldn't support this idea. I think it would be an interesting study to look at increased/decreased sales of either 540s or 440s if this app was available. Personally, I wouldn't (didn't) purchase a second unit just to have an extra screen or some additional map datablocks. I think people buy multiple panel units for the redundancy they provide including a second nav/com/ifr rnav. The tablet app could not serve as a backup. If the single panel mounted unit failed, you may be able to use the app as a vfr EFB, but you'd lose nav/com/ifr rnav capability. I can easily see a person on the fence choose Avidyne by having this app available. I could also see people with dual in panel units wanting the this app for a third screen. You could have an extra screen for the dedicated traffic page ;) My issue with this idea is chart data. I use my tablet for viewing plates from an EFB with an inexpensive subscription. I can't justify paying for Jepp chart data when it is so over priced compared to the other available products. Either I would have to have another tablet (no room) for this IFD app or I'd not use it since I'd lose my chart capability. For those who do pay for chart data, it would be interesting if this would fall under the 1 Jepp subscription for all of your boxes plan.
Edited by brou0040 - 09 Jan 2016 at 7:47pm |
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AUXAIR
Senior Member Joined: 01 Jul 2015 Location: KSUA Status: Offline Points: 138 |
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With all respect to those who are thinking "outside the box". an app designed for the IFDs has little interest for me except as a mechanism to create a flight plan off-line and then load it to the system, and the inverse. I am much more interested in using the features already present in an application like ForeFlight, where maps, databases and weather reporting are already in place, along with the ability to create flight plans and (important to me and my colleagues in SAR) create and chart search patterns. To me, leveraging an application already in place, accepted and well-configured, is key to success, even it initially confined to links to send and receive flight plans. In the case of ForeFlight, it conveys capabilities not readily available in the IFDs, especially on the ground, Transfer of ADS-B reception data would be a plus as well. |
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David E.
Cessna 182 RG II |
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dpcraig
Newbie Joined: 02 Jan 2016 Location: Michigan Status: Offline Points: 30 |
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I agree with AUXAIR...I had the flight stream 210 installed with my GNS 430's and it worked flawlessly transferring flight plans from foreflight. I hated to give that up when I went to the 440's but with the Bluetooth wifi capabilities I assumed it wouldn't be long before that capability existed. Crossing my fingers we'll all be pleasantly surprised in a future software release.
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dpcraig
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AviJake
Admin Group Joined: 26 Mar 2009 Location: Lincoln MA Status: Offline Points: 2815 |
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Now this has been a fun thread to watch develop. I see two areas in this thread worth addressing by Avidyne right now :
1. Take advantage of the existing capability of the flight code running as a training/simulation aid and convert that into some type of interactive app with the certified, panel-mounted IFDs. 2. Leverage existing flight planning and mission aid apps and create interactive comm between them and the certified, panel-mounted IFDs. I will say there is a lot going on, development-wise in this area. Avidyne thinks that both ideas are great ideas and that both dreams will be directly addressed in the very near future. That's all I'll communicate at this moment but your patience up to this point should be nicely rewarded. That being said, we are very happy, and want to encourage, any more ideas on 3rd party (or Avidyne) apps. We're on the verge of some really neat new capabilities in your airplanes so let's keep pushing in that area. Edited by AviJake - 10 Jan 2016 at 10:20am |
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Steve Jacobson
sjacobson@avidyne.com |
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brou0040
Senior Member Joined: 13 Dec 2012 Location: KIYK Status: Offline Points: 720 |
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Great to hear!
Based on earlier Avidyne comments, I always figured (hoped) that the flight planning apps would be on their way. I'm optimistic that users will eventually have a selection of apps they can choose from, which brings up a good question. Do the panel mounted IFD's and the wifi interface have the capability to connect to multiple apps simultaneously? Could I connect to a ForeFlight app and a IFD app at the same time? Unfortunately, the app developer I was hoping for is not currently working on integrating this into their app, not to say they won't in the future. Depending on the features provided by an IFD connected app, this may mean that I'll be switching apps, but I'm not sure if that requires switching hardware - unless the app interface is just that appealing.
Edited by brou0040 - 10 Jan 2016 at 11:29am |
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jhbehrens
Senior Member Joined: 15 Dec 2012 Location: Netherlands Status: Offline Points: 128 |
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AviJake I hope you will also work with non-US app developers in support of your overseas user base. Foreflight doesn't provide charts for Europe so its not usable over here. Most European IFR pilots use SkyDemon instead.
There is also an affordable non-certified satellite weather solution that is becoming widely used by IFR pilots created by Sebastian Golze (http://www.ing-golze.de/). If your intended use cases include taking weather from a 3rd party device and showing it on the IFD that would a great integration to pursue.
Edited by jhbehrens - 10 Jan 2016 at 11:54am |
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AviJake
Admin Group Joined: 26 Mar 2009 Location: Lincoln MA Status: Offline Points: 2815 |
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Yes and Yes.
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Steve Jacobson
sjacobson@avidyne.com |
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AviJake
Admin Group Joined: 26 Mar 2009 Location: Lincoln MA Status: Offline Points: 2815 |
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Yes, definitely not limited to US only. That being said, I'm not familiar with Sebastian but will look into it.
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Steve Jacobson
sjacobson@avidyne.com |
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ddgates
Senior Member Joined: 12 Aug 2011 Location: Deer Valley Status: Offline Points: 1100 |
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A simple, user developed app, in which the device could interact with the panel mount in a training <ground> mode, as in:
and so forth. Perhaps Avidyne could give guidance about cool but largely undiscovered capabilities, or better ways to get from point A to point B. |
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David Gates
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AviJake
Admin Group Joined: 26 Mar 2009 Location: Lincoln MA Status: Offline Points: 2815 |
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Good question. My first reaction is that one of the features in Release 10.2 is "Demo Mode". Anyone (end user or install shops and everyone in between) can put the IFD into demo mode which should facilitate a bunch of power-on training. I get that means you have to be in the airplane with power on or take the box out and have it powered up "on the bench" so that might be limiting to a bunch of folks.
But, we should be able to update the free download training app to also provide this capability. The way you use Demo mode is to get the box into Maintenance Mode, then check a box for "Demo Mode". Then the box boots into Demo mode and you interact with it as if it were full flight mode. You enter an origin and a flight plan the box "flies" that flight plan including any altitude constraints. Here's a snippet from the 10.2 Pilot Guide that I'm currently writing for that area (it doesn't include the pix that the actual PG has and the snippet formatting sucks): Demo ModeThe IFD can be put into demo mode at any time while on the ground for familiarization purposes. Entry into demo mode is accessed via the tab in Maintenance Mode. Once that selection has been made and confirmed in Maintenance Mode, the IFD will boot to the following screen at each power up. Demo Mode Splash Screen <picture of splash screen here>
Pressing the bezel “ENTR” button will proceed into demo mode while pressing “CLR” will exit demo mode and proceed into normal flight mode. While in demo mode, the IFD will “fly” the active flight plan in the FMS including any altitude constraints that may be part of the flight plan. The starting point of demo mode is whatever location is entered in the flight plan origin and changing the origin location while in demo mode will jump the location to the origin coordinates. If you don’t enter a FPL or once the FPL is done the plane will continue flying straight forever. If a box is just sitting on a shelve running a demo it will most likely be in this state. It is less of an issue now since the missed approaches are automatically triggered and contain a hold. So at the end you’ll be holding forever
Tips and Techniques Flying Behavior in Demo Mode Demo mode will fly a straight line if no flight plan is entered or when reaching the end of the flight plan unless the last leg of the flight plan or missed approach is a hold, in which case the aircraft will stay in the hold indefinitely.
Tips and Techniques Altitude Constraints Retained Altitude constraints entered into a flight plan will be retained across power cycles in stored routes for direct legs but changes to altitude constraints in terminal area procedures will not be retained in stored routes.
Tips and Techniques Flight Above Terrain in Demo Mode The only way to ensure flight above the terrain in demo mode is to enter altitude constraint(s) in the flight plan that are above the terrain along the flight plan route of flight. Once in demo mode, both the Map and Chart will display a “Not For Navigation” watermark. To return to flight mode, use the “Stop Demo Mode” LSK on the SYS tab of the AUX page. ****************************************************** So, it might be worth waiting for you folks to see this Demo mode in action and then refine the app idea suggested by David. |
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Steve Jacobson
sjacobson@avidyne.com |
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ddgates
Senior Member Joined: 12 Aug 2011 Location: Deer Valley Status: Offline Points: 1100 |
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Wow.
The (to be developed) app could allow interaction between keyboard and the sim app such that learning curve to the KB could be done with <cold beverage in hand> and no frustration about battery power, CFIT etc. Edited by ddgates - 10 Jan 2016 at 5:57pm |
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David Gates
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Freff
Newbie Joined: 01 Oct 2015 Status: Offline Points: 25 |
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I would like to use the IFD API's to get ADSB weather and traffic IN to the IFD540 WITHOUT using an IPAD. That is, I would like to connect the stratux via WIFI so that it directly sends ADSB weather and traffic to the IFD. That way the IPAD is no longer needed. What a solution for the market that would be! This would allow me to - declutter the cockpit. Ipad no longer needed for weather info - eliminate a point of failure (ipad / battery) - reduce costs (no longer need a subscription to WingX, Foreflight, etc, if you don't want it) - have a portable but integrated ADSB in solution until i decide what to do about the 2020 mandate.
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ronl
Groupie Joined: 08 Apr 2015 Status: Offline Points: 88 |
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That's a good idea and I would like that too but I don't think the FAA would ever allow a certified box to display data from an uncertified receiver. Certified to uncertified should be ok but probably not the other way around.
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Ron L
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tony
Senior Member Joined: 06 Dec 2011 Location: Atlanta Status: Offline Points: 466 |
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Yes I would like this as well as the hearing the audio in my headset. i.e. when foreflight gives a traffic alert, instead of using Bluetooth, the audio can get into the ICS system from the 540 via Wi-Fi. I also want to upload the flight plan, that I filed with foreflight, loaded directly into the 540. |
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ddgates
Senior Member Joined: 12 Aug 2011 Location: Deer Valley Status: Offline Points: 1100 |
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Good idea, Tony!
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David Gates
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DavidBunin
Senior Member Joined: 20 May 2015 Location: Rockwall, TX Status: Offline Points: 742 |
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I'm thinking about the connections available between the IFD and the ICS (audio panel). Are you saying that the IFD would pass through any iPad audio as an Alert signal? Because the other choices are Comm audio or Nav audio (or Comm Standby). I'm not sure this is better than just going straight from the iPad to the ICS via Bluetooth. David Bunin |
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PA20Pacer
Senior Member Joined: 07 Mar 2012 Location: Illinois (LL22) Status: Offline Points: 161 |
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Hi David- I think the primary reason this would be desirable would be to allow the alerts to be heard through intercom systems that do not have Bluetooth capability. Regards, Bob
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Bob Siegfried, II
Brookeridge Airpark (LL22) Downers Grove, IL |
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DavidBunin
Senior Member Joined: 20 May 2015 Location: Rockwall, TX Status: Offline Points: 742 |
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What if one of your passengers is playing Candy Crush? Would you want that passed-through as alert-level audio?
The audio panels that have bluetooth, have it as entertainment-level audio. |
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ddgates
Senior Member Joined: 12 Aug 2011 Location: Deer Valley Status: Offline Points: 1100 |
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Great pickup, David.
Would require that all PAX's devices have BT and/or Wifi TURNED OFF. DMG
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David Gates
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tony
Senior Member Joined: 06 Dec 2011 Location: Atlanta Status: Offline Points: 466 |
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I would act as the pilot in command and tell them to turn it off. |
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brou0040
Senior Member Joined: 13 Dec 2012 Location: KIYK Status: Offline Points: 720 |
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Then your 4 year old will turn it back on and call your bluff on turning this airplane around and going home... |
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clydeps
Groupie Joined: 05 Sep 2015 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 72 |
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Nope, just don't pair any device to your audio panel that you don't want to hear! The PMA8000BT default mode only accepts Bluetooth audio from one device at a time. You can put it into a mode where it will stream audio from multiple devices. The AMX240 manual makes no mention of handling multiple devices.
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Gring
Senior Member Joined: 30 Dec 2011 Location: Kingston, NY Status: Offline Points: 734 |
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I had a 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 year old in all of my airplanes and was connected with various devices. I've not found it to be an issue in either of the planes I have. In the back, I have a rear audio connected to the AMX240 and have the music distribution set so he can hear only his music input and my wife and I can hear ours in front.
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ddgates
Senior Member Joined: 12 Aug 2011 Location: Deer Valley Status: Offline Points: 1100 |
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The PMA450 can pair with several devices, and you don't easily select which pairings are active.
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David Gates
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tony
Senior Member Joined: 06 Dec 2011 Location: Atlanta Status: Offline Points: 466 |
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I had another idea, after I connected my iPad running foreflight to the 540, I want to connect my cell phone via Bluetooth so I could see my text messages on the 540. A poor man's ACARS system. I realize that the cell coverage is spotty at best but there are times you can get some data sent and received. We would need another page format on the 540.
Edited by tony - 01 Feb 2016 at 9:37am |
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ddgates
Senior Member Joined: 12 Aug 2011 Location: Deer Valley Status: Offline Points: 1100 |
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Do you have a Foreflight version which connects via WiFi? If so, what does it do?
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David Gates
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tony
Senior Member Joined: 06 Dec 2011 Location: Atlanta Status: Offline Points: 466 |
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Nope, we are just dreaming in this thread
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centerforcekid
Newbie Joined: 10 Feb 2016 Location: KPRC Status: Offline Points: 21 |
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Um ... Foreflight Connect! Thats all I want for Christmas (or 4th of July!)
thanks!
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Seneca II
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AviJake
Admin Group Joined: 26 Mar 2009 Location: Lincoln MA Status: Offline Points: 2815 |
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Noted.
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Steve Jacobson
sjacobson@avidyne.com |
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Kentucky Captain
Senior Member Joined: 21 Mar 2015 Location: KBRY Status: Offline Points: 234 |
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Yes I would like this as well as the hearing the audio in my headset. i.e. when foreflight gives a traffic alert
When I redid my panel, I had a jack mounted on the left side of the panel behind where my left iPad is mounted. It connects to the ADF input of my PMA450 audio panel. I get all of the Foreflight audio notifications through the headsets. The PMA450 is able to connect to multiple bluetooth devices simultaneously. It's a great tool to receive clearances at remote airports that have no remote frequency. It's not a bad idea to turn your phone to airplane mode once you have your clearance as I have had the crap scarred out of me on short final when the phone started ringing through the headphones. It doesn't sound anything like what my phone ringtone is so it took me a minute to figure out what it was. |
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dstrembicke
Newbie Joined: 09 Mar 2016 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 4 |
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Does anyone know where to get the SDK. I've sent an email request to Avidyne but no reply. I'm assuming it's out there and yes I'm looking to do some simple things on an Android system...but start with playing with getting datablocks to display.
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"Quidvis Recte Factum Quamvis Humile Praeclarum"
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