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Gaps in FPL between STAR and approach

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jhbehrens View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jhbehrens Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Gaps in FPL between STAR and approach
    Posted: 12 Aug 2024 at 8:38am
On recent flights, I have often noticed there was a gap in the flight plan between the same two waypoints, one the termination point of an arrival, and the other the IAF of the connecting departure. Moreover these could not be manually deleted or 'connected' with a softkey press as is often the case.

Some trial and error showed me the way to remove the gap, is to set the same altitude restriction on both waypoints. As soon as there is any difference, this gap is introduced.

In Europe, there are quite a lot of examples where the published altitude restriction on the same waypoint, when in the START and when in the approach, is different. I know that doesn't make a lot of sense, but there you go. As a result of that, a gap is always introduced and can only be removed by tweaking the restrictions manually.

Although I understand the logic behind this heuristic, I believe this is non optimal behaviour, as an unconnectable gap means you need to remember to manually sequence to the second instance of that waypoint when on the leg to the first instance, without any warning or prompt to say this is required.

A better choice would be not to introduce this gap in the first place, or at least have some logic that forced the pilot to acknowledge or act on the gap.

Can this be considered for an upcoming release?



Edited by jhbehrens - 12 Aug 2024 at 8:39am
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AviSteve View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AviSteve Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Aug 2024 at 12:02pm
The IFD generates an alert when approaching a Gap In Route, which acts a a prompt to remind you that something needs to be done.
Steve Lindsley
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jhbehrens View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jhbehrens Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Aug 2024 at 10:25am
I understand, I still think you can do better. The IFD doesn't seem to ever do 'at altitude', it's always 'at or above' even if the procedure says 'at'. So if the end of the STAR the IFD says 'Not below FL050' and at the beginning of the Approach the IFD says 'Not below 3800ft' (a real example I had last week landing at EDQM), why introduce the gap? These two values don't conflict.

Edited by jhbehrens - 15 Aug 2024 at 10:42am
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AviSteve View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AviSteve Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Aug 2024 at 10:02pm
There are underlying software design reasons for introducing that rule, but I understand what you're saying.  Best I can offer is to say that we'll take it under advisement and see if there's some way we can tweak the design to support it. 
Steve Lindsley
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AdmiralJanesTKirk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Dec 2024 at 9:28am
I have, on several occasions, had the ifd440 fail to sequence from arrival to approach. Even when beyond arrival fixes, there is no way to activate an approach. I've had to use my 430w in #2 spot to fly the approach. It won't even permit visual approaches. 

I'm wondering if this altitude data conflict is the reason... must the gaps be eliminated before an approach can be activated even if you've flown beyond the gap?

Check  kmia-- TTYLR4.TTYLR to 8L


Edited by AdmiralJanesTKirk - 10 Dec 2024 at 9:29am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MysticCobra Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Dec 2024 at 1:33pm
It's not clear from your post whether you are only concerned about the IFD auto-activating the approach, or if you are also unable to manually activate the approach as well.  

Do you get an "Activate Approach" button on the FPL page that you can use to manually activate when you get close enough?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AdmiralJanesTKirk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Dec 2024 at 1:51pm
Exactly!  There is no "Activate Approach" button available... Even if I try to load other approaches... while on approach  :/

Interestingly, this only happens when an arrival is loaded.

Am I missing something? or is the box faulty?


Edited by AdmiralJanesTKirk - 10 Dec 2024 at 1:53pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AviSteve Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 6 hours 34 minutes ago at 11:02pm
It's not a faulty box.  I couldn't find KMIA TTYLR4 anywhere.  Have you got a link to a chart?
Steve Lindsley
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