EE Error Msg while ID’ing an ILS NavAid (10.3.0.

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   Setting up for the ILS approach at KOLM, the IFD440 failed to ID the ILS frequency and instead displayed “EE” instead of the nav aid identifier.
This is the 2nd time this has happened since the upgrade to 10.3. (running 10.3.0.2)

The morse code signal was strong and clear when I id’d it manually.  Wondering under what circumstance the IFD will put up the error EE for id’ing ILS nav aids.

Edited by ricardo - 22 Apr 2023 at 1:59am

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ricardo Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 17 Jan 2022 Location: Seattle, wa Status: Offline Points: 133	Post Options Post Reply Quote ricardo Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Topic: EE Error Msg while ID’ing an ILS NavAid (10.3.0. Posted: 22 Apr 2023 at 1:59am
	Setting up for the ILS approach at KOLM, the IFD440 failed to ID the ILS frequency and instead displayed “EE” instead of the nav aid identifier. This is the 2nd time this has happened since the upgrade to 10.3. (running 10.3.0.2) The morse code signal was strong and clear when I id’d it manually. Wondering under what circumstance the IFD will put up the error EE for id’ing ILS nav aids. Edited by ricardo - 22 Apr 2023 at 1:59am

oskrypuch Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 09 Nov 2012 Location: CYFD Status: Offline Points: 3058	Post Options Post Reply Quote oskrypuch Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 22 Apr 2023 at 11:21pm
	LOC navaid identifiers are in a separate Jepp database from VORs. Sometimes they are not included in that particular list. When that occurs, then you won't get it identified. Further, the unit will display the LOC annunciation in yellow, and you may have to manually transition it. I have this happen for one airport in my area. * Orest Edited by oskrypuch - 22 Apr 2023 at 11:22pm

AviSteve Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Admin Group Joined: 12 Feb 2018 Location: Melbourne, FL Status: Offline Points: 2160	Post Options Post Reply Quote AviSteve Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 23 Apr 2023 at 9:36pm
	The Morse code for E is a single dot. Most often, when the radio cannot decode the identifier from the signal, it will end up with one or more dot. That shows itself on the display as E or EE or EEE depending on how much the radio can make out. While you might be able to listen and make out the signal by ear, the radio looks for specific signal characteristics and if the signal doesn't fit those parameters, the radio won't be able to decode it.
	Steve Lindsley Avidyne Engineering

ricardo Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 17 Jan 2022 Location: Seattle, wa Status: Offline Points: 133	Post Options Post Reply Quote ricardo Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 24 Apr 2023 at 2:56am
	thanks steve for the explanation. sounds like the SOP for this event is to just manually id the nav aid and switch to vloc if the navaid can be identifier and carry on. doesn’t really affect the quality of the navaid guidance .. its just a function of the morse code identifying algorithm. right?

AviSteve Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Admin Group Joined: 12 Feb 2018 Location: Melbourne, FL Status: Offline Points: 2160	Post Options Post Reply Quote AviSteve Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 24 Apr 2023 at 11:34am
	Yes, it's just the station identification decode that is affected. So, if you're doing a navaid based approach and the IFD can't decode the station identifier, then the IFD won't auto-switch to VLOC (because part of the switching criteria is that the decoded identifier matches the expected identifier from the database).
	Steve Lindsley Avidyne Engineering

ricardo Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 17 Jan 2022 Location: Seattle, wa Status: Offline Points: 133	Post Options Post Reply Quote ricardo Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 25 Apr 2023 at 12:21am
	thanks! Since i've modified my SOP for ILS approaches to always manually switch to VLOC (kind of neccesary if you fly the GFC500 AP) .. i think i'll just start manually ID'ing the navaid too as a SOP and this sort of issue is moot.

oskrypuch Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 09 Nov 2012 Location: CYFD Status: Offline Points: 3058	Post Options Post Reply Quote oskrypuch Report Post Thanks(1) Quote Reply Posted: 25 Apr 2023 at 9:18am
	It is nice to have it ID, and flip over automatically. But, I am kind of obsessed with checking that ID on a precision approach. If all you can see out the window is a goat on a cloud, that is my relative assurance that I am in the right place, it closes the loop. Same, with an RNav approach, I have the datablock that shows the active approach and mode, and prove it. I check the altimeter as part of my final approach checks, for good measure as well. * Orest Edited by oskrypuch - 25 Apr 2023 at 9:18am