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IFD540 data upload time & ship's power issue |
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oskrypuch 
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 Topic: IFD540 data upload time & ship's power issuePosted: 22 Dec 2013 at 12:28pm |
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Reading about the procedure in the manual about uploading by USB dongle, instead of using dedicated inserted data cards.
That is both good & bad. Good because you don't need to worry about extra data cards for swapping, but the potential downside is that you have to be powered up for that time on batteries, or burning fuel. The sample upload times in the manual, seem quite long, up to 20 min. That may be compounded by using USB 1.1 instead of USB 2.0 for the port. Perhaps the listed times are a worst case scenario, that is full world data and so on, but with several things to upload at a time it might still be reasonable to assume at least 10 min is required. It would not be prudent to be powered on batteries that long, so you might have to do this while the prop is turning. Can you comment on this? Is my perception incorrect? Has this been a practical issue at all in your EXP C182 setup? * Orest Edited by oskrypuch - 22 Dec 2013 at 1:20pm |
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oskrypuch
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Posted: 29 Dec 2013 at 12:00am |
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bump here
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AviJake
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Posted: 29 Dec 2013 at 9:20am |
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Your understanding sounds about right. I am augmenting the example times and database sizes a little in the next rev of the PG.
In our test bird, I have been loading the new updates with my prop spinning.
For a number of reasons, we stuck with USB 1.1 on purpose. |
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Steve Jacobson
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ddgates
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Posted: 29 Dec 2013 at 12:35pm |
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Just to deal with this kind of thing - and given that I have by my count 5 cockpit devices which require database upload, I bought a 30A 13.8V power supply. It provides enough amperage to power all those units so that database upload is doable, all avionics can be pre tuned and so forth without a drain on the battery.
The power supply cost about $70.
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David Gates
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tony
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Posted: 29 Dec 2013 at 12:44pm |
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That's a great idea. Do you plug the power supply into the cigarette lighter?
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ddgates
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Posted: 29 Dec 2013 at 2:53pm |
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Hi Tony.
No, I want to keep the battery isolated (lest I inadvertently drain the battery). I isolate the battery, by taking both the positive and negative leads off at the battery box and clipping the power supply onto those leads. Don't really have to do it that way, just compulsive, you could clip on to the positive side of the main relay, and to ground. Another intended consequence of using this is that the power supply has both a voltmeter and ammeter on board - I was able to measure the amperage drain of all my on board electronics, and thus I have an accurate load analysis. |
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David Gates
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oskrypuch
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Posted: 29 Dec 2013 at 3:06pm |
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Where did you get a 30A 14v power supply for $70?
Did you ever consider just connecting it to the exterior power connector? You'd have to get the plug of course. For me, having to undo the hat rack access door, open the battery box, and then fiddle with the battery leads to get all that done would be more than I would want to do every two weeks. * Orest Edited by oskrypuch - 29 Dec 2013 at 3:32pm |
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ddgates
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Posted: 29 Dec 2013 at 4:33pm |
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Don't have an external.
Ebay: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Jetstream-JTPS31MB-12-Volt-25-Amp-30-Amp-Adjustable-4-16V-Adj-Power-Supply-/200998391808?ssPageName=ADME:L:OC:US:3160 |
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David Gates
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tony
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Posted: 29 Dec 2013 at 5:46pm |
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If you drive into the cigarette lighter and don't turn on the master, wouldn't that do the same thing?
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ddgates
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Posted: 29 Dec 2013 at 6:06pm |
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I believe you are right.
Pardon, EE dropout. |
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David Gates
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brou0040
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Posted: 29 Dec 2013 at 9:00pm |
How many amps can the cigarette lighter handle, wouldn't it blow the fuse?
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oskrypuch
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Posted: 29 Dec 2013 at 9:12pm |
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Aux power is usually 5A. Doubt that would be sufficient to power the 540.
* Orest |
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ddgates
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Posted: 29 Dec 2013 at 9:28pm |
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The cigarette lighter I think is fused at 10 A; nonetheless not enough, so my method is the one to use unless you have an external.
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David Gates
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brou0040
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Posted: 01 Jan 2014 at 5:51pm |
On the pre-payment agreement, it states the price includes a microSD Card for databases. I assume this is no longer relevant since the updates will be via USB or is the microSD in addition to the USB updates or for something else.
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AviJake
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Posted: 01 Jan 2014 at 6:36pm |
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IFD540 pulls 2 amps (actually 1.8) for 28V aircraft when not transmitting VHF and 4 amps (about 3.6 really) for 14V aircraft when not transmitting VHF.
As for the microSD card, yes, that is Overcome By Events. There is still an internal microSD card but that houses the internal datalogger. The method of database and software uploads was changed from microSD to front bezel USB about a year ago.
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Steve Jacobson
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AviJake
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Posted: 03 Jan 2014 at 3:50pm |
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For reference, I just measured some more example database sizes and times. Here's a sampling:
· Worldwide Obstacles (1.5 MB) – 5 sec · Eastern US Charts (90ish MB) – 3ish min · US Charts (180 MB) – 5 ½ min · Worldwide Charts (430 MB) – 13 min · US Nav Data (8 MB) – 3 ½ min · Europe Nav Data (10 MB) – 2 ½ min · Australian Nav Data (1.5 MB) – 30 sec . Worldwide Nav Data (15 MB) - 7 Min Yes, it's correct that these are not linear extrapolations of sizes and times. We store them in different kinds of memory and we do different types of data validation during upload times. |
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Steve Jacobson
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oskrypuch
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Posted: 03 Jan 2014 at 4:55pm |
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OK, thanks. So yes, 5 to 10 min of data transfer time is a reasonable assumption. Is there at least some provision to temporarily copy the charts & navdata (downloaded through JSUM onto a laptop) to a dedicated USB memory stick -- and then just bring that USB stick to the plane to make the transfer? Seems to me I remember you mentioned that was how it was done, and you supplied a stick for that. If the latter, that would be at least awkward, and in some cases impossible. Many would see that as a significant negative I think.
* Orest Edited by oskrypuch - 03 Jan 2014 at 5:01pm |
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AviJake
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Posted: 03 Jan 2014 at 4:58pm |
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Orest,
Yes, those files get dumped onto a USB fob from JSUM. It's the USB fob that plugs directly into the IFD540 bezel and the sample file sizes and upload times are from that USB fob. You can do the JSUM to USB fob transfer from the comfort of your home (or wherever). |
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Steve Jacobson
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oskrypuch
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Posted: 03 Jan 2014 at 9:34pm |
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Very good.
* Orest |
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MysticCobra
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Posted: 03 Jan 2014 at 9:46pm |
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That's certainly more convenient than the G430W/530W update method. Since Garmin data cards are proprietary and expensive, I only have the one that's in the plane. I don't like to take it out of the plane (for fear of misplacing it or not carrying it back to the plane with me the next time I fly), so I always end up lugging the laptop to the plane for the update. (JSUM does at least allow for a data download and temporary storage on the laptop, so that no internet connection is required at the hangar for the final transfer of the bits from the laptop to the datacard.)
Dunno how the new G machines get their updates, but I doubt it's any more convenient than carrying a USB stick to the plane.
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Paul
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Posted: 04 Jan 2014 at 6:32pm |
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The manual lists a specific fob. Is that just what was tested? Five years from now if the manufacturer is in business and makes fobs of that size they will probably be USB3 compatible and have a different memory controller chip inside.
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BobsV35B
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Posted: 05 Jan 2014 at 1:40am |
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Good Evening AviJake,
I am rather disappointed in the update process. For the last twenty plus years I have always bought an extra data card for whiichever GPS I was using so that I could leisurely download it and carry the card in the airplane so that the new data could be used when appropriate. Taking ten minutes to update the box is not a good thing. Could the downloading be done while at cruise and actively operating the unit? One more thing. I was getting notices that there was something published here. That ceased about three weeks ago. Did I goof something up? Happy Skies, Old Bob AKA Bob Siegfried Downers Grove, IL
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Old Bob, Ancient Aviator
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Gring
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Posted: 05 Jan 2014 at 7:40am |
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Hi Bob, I've been flying an SR22 that has the Avidyne system in it with database updates in a similar fashion to what Steve describes above. It has been a non issue to put the key fob into the slot, start the aircraft, then initiate the download. By the time the engine is warm, AHARS aligned, taxi to runup, checklists complete, the upload has completed. I much prefer it to being forced to buy a proprietary card, two proprietary card loaders from two different manufacturers, and doing the update connected to a laptop. For me at least, I'm looking forward to a much more simple update process, once you try it, I'm sure you'll agree.
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BobsV35B
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Posted: 05 Jan 2014 at 9:33am |
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Good Morning Gring,
I am sure all of us like the way we have been doing things, but I guess I will have to learn a new way of keeping my data current. I have an extra data card for each of three IFR approved GPS units that I fly. Each is in a different airplane. I find it very easy to sit dwn for a few minutes to down load the Jeppesen data. Then I put the updated cards in the Glove box on the individual airplane. When the due date arrves, it takes about thirty seconds to slide in a new card and put the old one in my pocket to take home for updating at the appropriate time. I find the few hundred bucks it takes to have those extra cards to be money well spent for the convenience given. I guess I have no choice but to see how the Thumb Drive solution works in actual practice. If the set can be updated whie I am flying and using the box, it will be a no brainer. If not, I guess I will cope somehow! <G> Happy Skies, Old Bob
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Old Bob, Ancient Aviator
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oskrypuch
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Posted: 05 Jan 2014 at 10:44am |
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On thinking it through, I think the procedure will be just fine. As Gring notes, by the time your are ready to taxi, the update should pretty much be done. Unfortunately, when the unit is updating, it goes into a maintenance mode. You can't use it "normally", so you will then still have to program the flight plan, but that is lickety-quick with the IFD540. So, the periodic update should not be an issue, and it does eliminate the need for a second card.
You can still JSUM update all the req'd updates to the USB key at home, and put the key in the glove box of your plane, so the procedure will be similar. * Orest |
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brou0040
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Posted: 05 Jan 2014 at 10:45am |
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Avidyne previously stated they were going to use MicroSD cards, not proprietary cards. Not sure about the rest of the details.
Sure it may take some time for the engine to warm up in the winter, but I usually spend that time inputting my flight plan, tuning the frequencies, stuff I need the avionics up and running for. I don't want to be waiting at the runway hold short line punching in the flight plan when someone pulls up behind me. Not all, including my home drone, have dedicated run-up areas.
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Wurtzy
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Posted: 05 Jan 2014 at 11:30am |
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I have an aspen. And a Garmin gmx200 and a Garmin area hand held. I get weather on the gmx200 and the area....charts on the gmx 200 and laptop..my Garmin 530 is used for selecting approaches and nav..lightning and traffic is displayed on all 3.
My question from a cost basis is that with the addition of the 540, what shall I opt to put on it? I'm a Jepp subscriber Ty. Jw |
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oskrypuch
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Posted: 05 Jan 2014 at 12:51pm |
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If you have a full-time battery minder (we do), then doing the update on battery power on a day you are not flying, or while getting ready to pull the aircraft out, is not much of an issue.
* Orest Edited by oskrypuch - 05 Jan 2014 at 12:53pm |
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AviJake
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Posted: 05 Jan 2014 at 1:13pm |
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Old Bob - don't know what happened to the auto-notifications but I'll check on Monday. It happened to me a week or three ago as well.
Wurtzy - can you clarify your question? I'm not following it. I *think* you're asking that with the other gear in your airplane, what data do people recommend you wire to and display on the IFD540? Is that right? Brou0040 - we abandoned the MicroSD cards in favor of USB port uploads about 18 months ago.
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Steve Jacobson
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brou0040
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Posted: 05 Jan 2014 at 2:07pm |
Understood, the point I was making is that you were never planning on using proprietary hardware.
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Wurtzy
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Posted: 05 Jan 2014 at 2:38pm |
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Thanks for responding.....the ifd 540 is too small to play the. Jepp charts on. The,iPad and the Garmin gmx 200 rate larger. From a cost basis. What do u recommend be added to the 540.. I think that Jepp only allows 2 platforms to project charts...will traffic and weather already on the 530. Will I automatically get them on the 540 without extra cost
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Wurtzy
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Posted: 05 Jan 2014 at 2:44pm |
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I guess my question comes down to...am I adding anything by swapping the superior avidyne for my 530. It does much more. But I have this backup with the gmx200 with weather and traffic and the iPad for charts,,,I downloaded your manual and this ifd seems fantastic
Best jw |
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Gring
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Posted: 05 Jan 2014 at 6:59pm |
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"Good Morning Gring,
I am sure all of us like the way we have been doing things, but I guess I will have to learn a new way of keeping my data current. " Bob, I think that is the thing some are missing, we are trying to apply knowledge and procedure from our current GPS (most likely 430/530 type devices) to the IFD540, and that doesn't compute well here. An example for instance is the "take me home" thread. In the 430/530, Ok, I can see a simple function to do that would save time from click click click of the knob, but in the FMS nature of the IFD540, touch input and geofill make that a very simple process, far more so than accessing a "take me home" function. Although you call yourself an "ancient aviator", I'm going to bet that you are here, iterested in the IFD series because you want to learn a more streamlined way of planning and navigating, and that is exactly what the IFD does.
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Wurtzy
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Posted: 05 Jan 2014 at 7:09pm |
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Sorry my bad but what is a take me home thread?
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MysticCobra
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Posted: 06 Jan 2014 at 8:10am |
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"Show me the way to go home": http://forums.avidyne.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=340&title=show-me-the-way-to-go-home
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AviJake
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Posted: 06 Jan 2014 at 10:43am |
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Wurtzy,
I do use Jepp Charts on the IFD540 every flight. I do also have them on various Ipads I have in the airplane but I find myself just using the 540 for the plates because I can pinch zoom and pan as required to see whatever I need. The Jepp subscription is altered for the better as part of the IFD540 release. Jepp has done a decent job of lowering their subscriptions and offering more options to be competitive. If traffic and weather were showing up on your G530, then yes, they come along on the IFD540 at no extra cost. |
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Steve Jacobson
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Wurtzy
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Posted: 06 Jan 2014 at 11:02am |
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Avijake. You just use the 540 for the plates? Can't you zoom in on your iPad also? I have the Garmin gmx 200 for the plates and iPad for the backup. U can zoom in on both...cheers. Jw
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Wurtzy
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Posted: 06 Jan 2014 at 11:04am |
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The 540 is a much better box than the Garmin 530 with more redundancy for me
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AviJake
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Posted: 06 Jan 2014 at 11:14am |
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Yes, I can zoom in on the plates on the Ipad but I've personally found I don't use the Ipad anymore for operations. I do all my ops on the IFD540, including the plate use.
One important note however - I fly with a dual IFD540 setup so using up the screen real estate for plates on one IFD is no big deal. If I were flying with just a single IFD540, I suspect I'd be using the Ipad for plates a lot more. |
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Steve Jacobson
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glassanza
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Posted: 06 Jan 2014 at 12:08pm |
I realize this is off topic but I currently get TIS-A which I understand is sourced from my GTX330. I was planning on upgrading to the APX340 and have prepurchased and if I understand correctly I will lose TIS-A by doing so. That will leave me with basically iPad viewable traffic utilizing a portable ADSB-in receiver which is not ideal in my mind. I am installing 2 IFD540's which will completely fill my equipment rack as configured. I have asked the sales team this several times with no response, do you forsee an ADSB-in product that will allow me to view traffic on my 540 (and/or my G600) that will not require a slot in the equipment rack? If not, has there been any though to future updates that would upgrade existing APX340 units to receive ABSB-in as well as providing ADSB-out?
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GDC25
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tony
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Posted: 06 Jan 2014 at 2:46pm |
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Wow Steve, tough questions that you have been evading for some time...... Smile, I'm teasing you
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AviJake
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Posted: 06 Jan 2014 at 3:28pm |
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There is TIS and TIS-B. I'm assuming you mean TIS when you write "TIS-A".
If so, that is a fully supported option on the IFD540 at initial release. In other words, if you were getting TIS traffic display on the 530, sourced from the Garmin 330, you will still get that TIS traffic displayed on the IFD540. TIS is not ADS-B compliant however. Before I address any follow-on ADS-B support questions, does this response address glassanza's question? |
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Steve Jacobson
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TogaDriver
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Posted: 06 Jan 2014 at 3:33pm |
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I'll stir the pot a bit:
I'm told the AXP340 is an OEM Trig produced product (probably based on the TT31 guts). If so, there's no reason it should not output TIS-A (http://www.trig-avionics.com/tt31.html) since support for that is probably on the board and in the firmware. The only possible argument is to avoid competing with existing Avidyne traffic products. This is silly because TIS-A, though very handy where it works, is an EOL technology and is not supported except regionally (http://www8.garmin.com/aviation/tis.jsp) and is not real competition for a TAS600. I'm still waiting on a reason why the AXP340 list price is over $2000 more than a Garmin 330-ES. If this does not change I will not be able to install both IFD's I've ordered without losing the ADSB-OUT I already have. Stir... stir... |
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glassanza
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Posted: 06 Jan 2014 at 4:41pm |
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I was kind of hoping for a AXP340-AI (ADSB-in) upgrade for around 1200 bucks....
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GDC25
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glassanza
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Posted: 06 Jan 2014 at 5:12pm |
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Steve the point I was trying to make was that by giving up my GTX330 I give up the TIS traffic I currently receive. I was told at S&F last year by my salesperson (no longer at Avidyne) that the 340 does not have the chip required to receive the current TIS traffic available like I am getting on my 330. I realize TIS is a dinosaur soon to be extinct but it still has good coverage where I fly for now and it shows up on my 530 and G600 MFD. I'm just trying keep as many things as possible hardwired in my airplane and displayed on premenant devices. WiFi and bluetooth are great but managing connectivity and battery life on multiple devices is not something I relish dealing with in IMC. So if your answer to my initial question is removing the existing GTX330 and replacing it with a APX340 will do away with the current TIS traffic I get then you have addressed my question. |
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GDC25
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AviJake
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Posted: 06 Jan 2014 at 5:13pm |
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I wouldn't sweat out the price of the AXP340. We continue to evaluate final pricing and I'm sure it will be competitive will all feature-comparative offerings in the market.
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Steve Jacobson
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AviJake
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Posted: 06 Jan 2014 at 5:17pm |
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Glassanza,
Sorry, I get it now. The AXP340 is not a TIS transponder so if you did replace the Garmin 330 with the Avidyne 340, then yes, you lose TIS. And of course, conversely, if you keep the Garmin 330 for now, you'll get TIS on the IFD540. |
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Steve Jacobson
sjacobson@avidyne.com |
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glassanza
Groupie
Joined: 26 Feb 2013 Location: Georgia Status: Offline Points: 98 |
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Posted: 06 Jan 2014 at 6:49pm |
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And to circle back around one more time taking delivery of the APX340 I have purchased give me a full equipment rack and ADSB-out with no option for ADSB-in either through additional capability of the APX340 or a non-panel mounted solution. It is tough to give up good traffic data with crappy coverage for hopefully "better" traffic data with expanded coverage off panel but that appears to be the only option at this point. I have experienced a very close call on approach in full IMC with an aircraft not communicating with ATC and place a significant value on knowing to the best my equipment's ability who is out there especially when I have no chance of seeing them visually. Sounds like I just need to add another equipment rack...
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GDC25
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tony wrote: