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GMSutton View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GMSutton Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Playing with Garmin Equipment
    Posted: 28 Jul 2014 at 10:58am
First, congratulations to Avidyne on last week's certification of the IFD540!  That's a significant milestone and as a deposit holder, I'm looking forward to replacing my GNS-530W with a new IFD540.

Since the unit was certified, there's been an active discussion on the Cessna Pilots Association Forums, where I'm a member of the Forum Advisory Committee.  While everyone is impressed with the IFD540 and glad to hear it's been certified, many owners seem reluctant to invest in one despite the obvious advantages of an advanced navigator that's a plug-in replacement for their GNS-530W.

The hesitation of many people to acquire an IFD540 stems from their concern that it won't play with the Garmin boxes already installed in their panels.  For example, the IFD540 won't serve as a GPS position source for the GTX-330ES transponder.  And the IFD540 won't "cross fill" flight plans with a Garmin navigator such as the GNS-430W.

My solution is to keep the GNS-430W in my panel for now so that it can supply position information to the GTX-330ES transponder.  As you know, that gives me ADS(B) Out capability.

I realize it's not Avidyne's fault that Garmin won't share it's proprietary interface with anyone else.  Garmin isn't the first company with a near-monopoly to behave like that.  And it's one reason they're losing my business.

But this does seem to be a major stumbling block for IFD540 and 440 sales.  Is there anything I can tell the CPA Forum members that would reassure them about the ability of the IFD540 to integrate well with their other panel-mounted avionics, including those made by Garmin?

Thanks, Mike


Edited by GMSutton - 28 Jul 2014 at 11:13am
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oskrypuch View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oskrypuch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jul 2014 at 3:55pm
Well, if you have more than one GNS, and are thinking of getting a 540 (or 440), I would imagine you'd want to swap both out. But if not, you will not get crossfill (IFD <-> GNS). But, also remember, you do not get crossfill between a 750 and a 530 (GTN <-> GNS), or a 650 and 430, so that issue is largely moot, no?

However, unless the FAA stomps on Garmin to open up their proprietary bus, they may well successfully block the rest of the avionics community in this regard. My solution is simple, I'm dumping my 330 (plain), which has good trade in value (330ES even better), and getting a 340. Garmin will keep some users in the flock, but others (like me) they will lose altogether.

* Orest



Edited by oskrypuch - 28 Jul 2014 at 3:57pm
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ddgates View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ddgates Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jul 2014 at 4:13pm
I think the above makes sense.

My solution is to go with Avidyne products as core, and Aspen to fill in.  I think (but don't have confirmation) that the two will collaborate, or at least I hope so.


David Gates
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oskrypuch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jul 2014 at 5:05pm
So, other than the 330ES and ADS-B issue, I don't think there are any other equipment snags. The GDL-69 (XM) works fine, Garmin traffic works fine too. If you have those installed, they should continue to work agnostically.

If you don't have them installed, but plan to add that function, personally I would go with something other than Garmin -- although that might be more a political statement, more than anything else.

I did just install the TAS605 (soon to be an 605A with a free upgrade), and love it.

* Orest

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wsh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jul 2014 at 2:30am
You are saying that if I change my 530&430 .. Both non WAAS .. To 2xIFD540 I will have a big problem because my gtx330(plain) will no longer be able to send out my position because it will not accept it fromthe IFDs?.

Thats not cool!

My stack will be Aspen pfd 1000 and mfd1000 .. With acu2
2xIFD540
Twx
Mlx
Tas 605 (from 2012/2013)
Gtx330

I have no free adsb upgrade for the TAS605 ..

What am I supposed to do?

Upgrade the tas605 ? At what cost?
And change my gtx330 for the 340?

Am I then automatically fully adbs?
Or can I wait untill Avidyne has completed her ADsB programm?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ddgates Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jul 2014 at 12:33pm
That's the problem in "mix and match".

I am almost coming to the conclusion that as a group the GA consumer should REFUSE to buy any more hardware that doesn't follow some sort of standardized connectivity and interplay.
David Gates
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oskrypuch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jul 2014 at 4:25pm
Originally posted by wsh wsh wrote:

You are saying that if I change my 530&430 .. Both non WAAS .. To 2xIFD540 I will have a big problem because my gtx330(plain) will no longer be able to send out my position because it will not accept it fromthe IFDs?.

No, not at all. If you have a GTX330 "plain", it is not ADS-B capable anyway. It is not looking for a GPS WAAS position for anything, and doesn't care what GPS/COM you have installed. And I don't believe that non-WAAS devices can be a position source for this, so a 530 or 430 "plain" could not supply the position either for ADS-B out signals.

Bear in mind that has NOTHING to do with the normal operation of a tranpsonder, your Mode S (or Mode C) would continue to work whatever you do with your GPS/COM.

I don't know when they introduced the "free" upgrade on the TAS605's, but regardless it still needs to go to the factory. If you don't have it, it will be about $2000 if you wish to get it. If you get the A upgrade, the TAS will accept both ADS-B out data from other planes, and ADS-R from ground stations to augment the transponder traffic picture it normally sees . 

If you have a pair of 540s, a 340 and a TAS605A, you will be fully compliant for ADS-B on 1090 Mhz, and you will receive all the ADS-B TIS-B traffic, that will augment the Mode C traffic that your 605 already sees.

* Orest



Edited by oskrypuch - 29 Jul 2014 at 4:28pm
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Leonard View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Leonard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jul 2014 at 9:57pm

Originally posted by ddgates ddgates wrote:

That's the problem in "mix and match".

I am almost coming to the conclusion that as a group the GA consumer should REFUSE to buy any more hardware that doesn't follow some sort of standardized connectivity and interplay.


+1

Planning on a panel update with 2  540's...

If the others won't play I won't pay!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wsh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jul 2014 at 5:25am
So .. I can install the ifd540s no problem and my gtx 330 will work as it has always worked.

The tas605 I can upgrade whenever that becomes available. And that will give me ads-b in.

Only when i want to start transmitting ads-b out i need to upgrade my transponder to a 340 or find another solution.


Okay that is clear..

Now I need my TAS605 to start displaying traffic at the right spot. For some reason the traffic is not in the right location and nobody seems to understand why. basically i should imagine myself in the southwest corner on roughly the 2nm ring for it to be correct . And this is already an exchanged unit.

Avidyne does not know why this is happening? Neither does my dealer who thinks it is just a broken processor. Another avionics technician thinks it might be a double heading signal or a difference in length of the antenna cables top and bottom?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oskrypuch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jul 2014 at 5:52am
Yes, you got all that right.

You mention unequal length cables. During my install I noticed that the guys left a bunch of coiled coax in the sideboards, instead of cutting it. They explained that it is critical to not only use the same length to each antenna, but that it had to be a minimum length, something like 40ft. You may be on the right track.

* Orest

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TurboPA30 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Jul 2014 at 7:24am
Avidyne urgently needs a remote ADS-B TXP operated by the IFD-540 as control head. Trig has the TT-22, so it is logical....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AviJake Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Jul 2014 at 12:25pm
It is logical but it's not that simple.  That remote mount Trig does not use the same protocol.

But, we agree that it's important for us to supply an ADS-B compliant, remote-mount transponder for those folks who are panel space limited or just want a more integrated solution.
Steve Jacobson
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote phkmn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Jul 2014 at 4:03pm
I have a question about the IFD540's ability to act as an ADSB position source for Garmin's GTX330ES transponder.
1.  Positively won't work?
2.  Might work, nobody has tried it yet?
3.  Works fine?


Edited by phkmn - 31 Jul 2014 at 4:03pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AviJake Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Jul 2014 at 4:09pm
1.3  - By definition, it will not work since Garmin did not give us the protocol despite our asking.  However, we did not try it.  I seriously doubt it will work given their proprietary interface but I suppose miracles are possible.
Steve Jacobson
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ptlevine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Aug 2014 at 11:51am
Are there any field reports about the 540 and the G500/600? My understanding was that there would be no loss of functionality on what the G500 displays when switching from the 530W to the 540IFD. But, sure would love to hear confirmation of that from folks who have been using it.

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