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Remove Jep Charts from 540

Printed From: Avidyne
Category: Avidyne General
Forum Name: IFD 5 Series & IFD 4 Series Touch Screen GPS/NAV/COM
Forum Description: Topics on Avidyne's IFD 5 Series and IFD 4 Series Touch Screen GPS/NAV/COM
URL: http://forums.avidyne.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=2094
Printed Date: 27 Jan 2021 at 3:42pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: Remove Jep Charts from 540
Posted By: M20Kid
Subject: Remove Jep Charts from 540
Date Posted: 19 Oct 2020 at 10:09pm
I have a 540 in my airplane and decided to stop paying for charts with Jeppsen; I do still get other data for the unit.  Now each time I start the unit points out that my charts are out of date.

Is there any way to tell the 540 that I no longer update the charts?  Or to remove that portion of the database so it doesn't look for updates?



Replies:
Posted By: AviSteve
Date Posted: 20 Oct 2020 at 12:20pm
10.3 will have a way for you to disable charts through maintenance mode.  Until then, you'll need a DSF to do it.  I'll get that DSF and send it to you.

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Steve Lindsley
Avidyne Engineering


Posted By: HenryM
Date Posted: 20 Oct 2020 at 1:35pm
AviSteve:

I'd like that DSF too. I would like to get rid of charts that aren't even for the part of the country I fly in. 

I also have an old obstacles database, but I suppose that database is better than nothing. I only update those once a year, and I also have them on Foreflight.


Posted By: ddgates
Date Posted: 20 Oct 2020 at 9:53pm
I'd like the dsf as well.  I have 2 540s.

Thanks


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David Gates


Posted By: paulr
Date Posted: 21 Oct 2020 at 7:15am
I would also like the DSF, please and thank you.


Posted By: FlyingCOham
Date Posted: 21 Oct 2020 at 6:56pm
I too have an old set of charts in my 540.  The problem is there are stiil many charts in that edition that are still completely current but the 540 cripples them because they came in a set that is more than 60 days old.
Example: La Junta, RNAV approaches to 08 & 26.  Both were last changed in 2009 and are still valid but the 540 has no way for the user to tell it they are still current so they are crippled... ( : < )  BTW, if you have a paper copy from 2009 it is still completely legal as long as the pilot verifies it is the current chart.

From 540 Pilot Guide: "Charts that have been expired for 60 or more days will still be displayed and readable indefinitely but a watermark “Not for Navigation” will be depicted on each chart. The flight plan will not be overlaid on expired charts" Boo!



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Jim Patton


Posted By: dmtidler
Date Posted: 21 Oct 2020 at 8:46pm
Originally posted by FlyingCOham FlyingCOham wrote:

I too have an old set of charts in my 540.  The problem is there are stiil many charts in that edition that are still completely current but the 540 cripples them because they came in a set that is more than 60 days old.
Example: La Junta, RNAV approaches to 08 & 26.  Both were last changed in 2009 and are still valid but the 540 has no way for the user to tell it they are still current so they are crippled... ( : < )  BTW, if you have a paper copy from 2009 it is still completely legal as long as the pilot verifies it is the current chart.

From 540 Pilot Guide: "Charts that have been expired for 60 or more days will still be displayed and readable indefinitely but a watermark “Not for Navigation” will be depicted on each chart. The flight plan will not be overlaid on expired charts" Boo!

The IFD does not have the ability to verify what, if any charts from an outdated chart database are still current. From a Avidyne liability standpoint, I think the policy regarding charts that are more than four chart cycles out of date is perfectly reasonable. 


Posted By: FlyingCOham
Date Posted: 21 Oct 2020 at 9:21pm
I'm not suggesting the system should be able to identify charts that are still valid - that's crazy to expect.  That's the pilot's responsibility.  The problem is there is no way for the pilot to exercise his/her responsibility and tell the system that this chart is still valid.


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Jim Patton


Posted By: Catani
Date Posted: 22 Oct 2020 at 5:43pm
Originally posted by FlyingCOham FlyingCOham wrote:

I'm not suggesting the system should be able to identify charts that are still valid - that's crazy to expect.  That's the pilot's responsibility.  The problem is there is no way for the pilot to exercise his/her responsibility and tell the system that this chart is still valid.


Why as a pilot do you feel responsible to "tell the system that this chart is still valid?"  A chart is for your reference.  Your responsibility under IFR is to utilize charts you know to be valid.  I see no pilot responsibility to "tell the system" anything.  What am I missing?

If you have confirmed the chart is current and valid, you can use it flying IFR and can ignore any flags provided by the system to inform you its chart cycle is out of date.  There's no need to inform "the system" of your decision in that regard.


Posted By: FlyingCOham
Date Posted: 22 Oct 2020 at 5:56pm
The problem is the 540 s/w cripples the chart if the package it came in is over 60 days old.  There's no way to tell the 540 that the chart you are trying to use is still valid and should not be crippled.
From 540 Pilot Guide: "Charts that have been expired for 60 or more days will still be displayed and readable indefinitely but a watermark “Not for Navigation” will be depicted on each chart. The flight plan will not be overlaid on expired charts"

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Jim Patton


Posted By: dmtidler
Date Posted: 22 Oct 2020 at 7:17pm
Originally posted by FlyingCOham FlyingCOham wrote:

The problem is the 540 s/w cripples the chart if the package it came in is over 60 days old.  There's no way to tell the 540 that the chart you are trying to use is still valid and should not be crippled.
From 540 Pilot Guide: "Charts that have been expired for 60 or more days will still be displayed and readable indefinitely but a watermark “Not for Navigation” will be depicted on each chart. The flight plan will not be overlaid on expired charts"

This brings up a couple of questions. With the Avidyne packages of digital Jeppesen chart databases, how do you determine that a procedure you're referencing is in fact the current procedure if the chart database the procedure comes from is not the current chart database? 

With paper Jeppesen revisions, there was a master list of current charts with each revision that could be referenced to verify each procedure's currency. Is there an equivalent online accessible Jeppesen master list of current procedures you're using to cross check the currency of each procedure you're referencing from an out of date database every 14 days?



Posted By: teeth6
Date Posted: 22 Oct 2020 at 7:41pm
Good question... I am not aware of a way to cross reference to see if a chart from an older database is still current.  I had assumed you should have a current database to fly an approach but you are correct that the procedure could very well be identical to an expired database.  This is true of the Jepp charts on Foreflight as well.  By going digital, pilots no longer have to go thru their paper charts and replace them as required.


Posted By: FlyingCOham
Date Posted: 23 Oct 2020 at 1:52am
Example: this IAP was last changed on 27Aug2009



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Jim Patton


Posted By: dmtidler
Date Posted: 23 Oct 2020 at 9:47am
Originally posted by FlyingCOham FlyingCOham wrote:

Example: this IAP was last changed on 27Aug2009

Are you indicating that you are using the AIS FAA Procedure Amendment Number and/or Procedure Amendment Effective Date to crosscheck the validity non-current database Jeppesen approach charts?

Fun fact - the AIS published La Junta RNAV (GPS) Rwy 8 approach chart depicted above was actually last revised on 59th day of 2019 (February 28, 2019) as indicated by the 19059 above the approach title; however, whatever revisions were made to the chart did not affect anything procedural with the approach. The Jeppesen chart for this approach has not been revised since August 21, 2009.


Posted By: FlyingCOham
Date Posted: 23 Oct 2020 at 10:48am
Back to the issue.  The pilot can pull out a still valid 10 year old paper IAP and use it legally but has no way to tell the 540 that the same chart is still valid - getting rid of the watermark and enabling the flight plan on the chart.


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Jim Patton


Posted By: dmtidler
Date Posted: 23 Oct 2020 at 11:05am
How long after you indicate an expired database chart is valid do you propose the IFD retain that validity for that chart?


Posted By: FlyingCOham
Date Posted: 23 Oct 2020 at 6:58pm
Not long, I'd be happy with a few hours or a power cycle.


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Jim Patton



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