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Required diversity antenna in Canadian airspace

Printed From: Avidyne
Category: Avidyne General
Forum Name: AXP340/322 ADS-B Transponder
Forum Description: Topics on the Avidyne AXP340/322 ADS-B Transponder
URL: http://forums.avidyne.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=2607
Printed Date: 12 May 2024 at 8:44pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: Required diversity antenna in Canadian airspace
Posted By: oskrypuch
Subject: Required diversity antenna in Canadian airspace
Date Posted: 13 Dec 2023 at 9:15am
I have a super setup, with the remote 322 (edit) and IFD540, controlled with my keypad, and the TAS-605A. I have ADS-B out, and capture all the mode C and TIS-B and direct ADS-B traffic.

Enter in Transport Canada, it will now require a diversity antenna to have UP & DOWN transmitting on transponders, so they can use satellite reception. And, it all has to be 1090.

~~~~~~~~~~

Are there any plans to add diversity capability to the 322? (edit) I expect it would have to be a hardware swap.

What would really be perfect, is a module that pops in and provides the chopped in UP broadcast to the normal DOWN broadcast.

The tailbeaconX is one option, but it would mean breaking an ideal user interface.

The other option is going Lynx 9000, and ripping out the transponder and traffic system. Very costly, junking perfectly operating hardware, and ending up with no greater functionality!

Avidyne, anything??

* Orest




Replies:
Posted By: rpostmo
Date Posted: 13 Dec 2023 at 10:54am
I'm not familiar with the 422, but it likely would have some value on the resale market.
I believe your best option is the NGT9000.  It is a spectacular unit, easy to use, and very readable
such that where I have it at near eye-level I prefer it for traffic more than  traffic on the IFD540 
or the Ipad mini.    It also has a rock-solid wifi that I use for my second Ipad running IFLY.  It is independent of any wifi connection issues that might occur with the 540/440.  For me, it's turned the 
transponder which used to be a tool running in the background...out of sight, out of mind,    to a unit
that I use and interact with all the time, every flight.



Posted By: oskrypuch
Date Posted: 13 Dec 2023 at 5:07pm
Sorry, that is a 322 remote transponder.

I would need a remote option (like I have now), there is no room on the panel for a transponder, so the front screen of the 9000 is neither here or there. IAC, I am used to seeing traffic on my ASPEN, where it is right in my face.

As I comment, optioning up the 9000 with traffic, supplants the 605A I already have installed.

Swapping in a basic remote 9000, which apparently does work with the IFD as a control unit, is a possibility, but I thought I read that they don't unbundle the traffic integration, so the unit is fairly pricey and would result in overlap.

Ideally I would just swap in remote Avidyne 322, but with diversity built-in, but it doesn't exist.

* Orest



Posted By: Handy1
Date Posted: 14 Dec 2023 at 10:28pm
I am in Canada as well and was struggling with this same issue. You may not actually need to replace your transponder to meet the mandate.

Despite all the messaging that says you need diversity to be received by the satellites, Nav Canada / Transport Canada quietly made some updates this summer to their websites and the CARs.

The Nav Canada website has a link to CARs 551.103 on this page under equipage requirements:
https://www.navcanada.ca/en/air-traffic/space-based-ads-b/ads-b-performance-requirements.aspx" rel="nofollow - https://www.navcanada.ca/en/air-traffic/space-based-ads-b/ads-b-performance-requirements.aspx

If you read through that section, you'll see a bunch of changes / notes that were added in July, including the below snip.

Based on that, my understanding is that you can request a performance report after one of your flights (or a few to be safe) and if it passes all the metrics, you are good to go. Just need to add SUR/CANMANDATE to your flight plan codes.

Performance reports can be requested here:  https://www.navcanada.ca/en/air-traffic/space-based-ads-b/public-ads-b-performance-report.aspx" rel="nofollow - https://www.navcanada.ca/en/air-traffic/space-based-ads-b/public-ads-b-performance-report.aspx

My plane passed completely with the AXP-322 and only the bottom mounted antenna.







Posted By: oskrypuch
Date Posted: 14 Dec 2023 at 11:29pm
Well, that is a breath of fresh air!! Thanks so much for posting.

Did you fly a flight within the 1090 "congested" air space for the test, or are you outside that?

And, the flight in question has to have been completed at least two hours ago to request a report, or the request needs to be made within the two hour period after a flight? A bit unclear to me, I am thinking the former.

* Orest


Posted By: Handy1
Date Posted: 15 Dec 2023 at 12:08am
You're welcome. I don't know why this hasn't been publicized more. 

I didn't make any flights specifically for the test, just requested reports for some flights I had done this past summer in Alberta & BC. I don't believe it has to be any specific airspace.

Yes, you just have to wait at least 2 hours after the flight to request the report. And you can request them for past flights quite a way back. I got a couple from several months prior.


Posted By: AviSteve
Date Posted: 15 Dec 2023 at 11:43am
At this point, I'm not aware of any plan to update the 322 for diversity.  There's a better chance of the IFD being able to control the TailBeaconX.

-------------
Steve Lindsley
Avidyne Engineering


Posted By: oskrypuch
Date Posted: 15 Dec 2023 at 1:11pm
Originally posted by Handy1 Handy1 wrote:

You're welcome. I don't know why this hasn't been publicized more. 

I didn't make any flights specifically for the test, ...


Outstanding! Will get right on it.

Well, I will be sure to pass it on.

* Orest


Posted By: oskrypuch
Date Posted: 15 Dec 2023 at 1:12pm
Originally posted by AviSteve AviSteve wrote:

At this point, I'm not aware of any plan to update the 322 for diversity.  There's a better chance of the IFD being able to control the TailBeaconX.


That would make it a lot more cost effective, AND (biggie) I'd still be able to control the transponder the same way.

Keep us updated on that, as it may drive some decisions. (although I may be OK for now as per above)

* Orest


Posted By: oskrypuch
Date Posted: 16 Dec 2023 at 1:40pm
Well, I passed with flying colors!! Will save the PAPR reports.

My avionics shop will be so disappointed. ;-)

Thanks again!

* Orest


Posted By: oskrypuch
Date Posted: 16 Dec 2023 at 1:54pm
So, adding the filed in Foreflight. They talk about ...

SUR/260B CANMANDATE

rather than just

SUR/CANMANDATE

I guess the 260B references the 1090 frequency, but that is all there is in Canada. What are you specifying?

* Orest



Posted By: Handy1
Date Posted: 16 Dec 2023 at 10:22pm
Great, glad to hear it. Hopefully most small aircraft will be fine with just the one antenna. The price premium on the diversity transponders is ridiculous.

Yes, the SUR line should say SUR/260B CANMANDATE. 260B should have been in there already because it goes with the B1 or B2 code for 1090 ADSB.





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