ADS-B STC for the AXP340 Status Update
Printed From: Avidyne
Category: Avidyne General
Forum Name: AXP340/322 ADS-B Transponder
Forum Description: Topics on the Avidyne AXP340/322 ADS-B Transponder
URL: http://forums.avidyne.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=524
Printed Date: 22 Nov 2024 at 12:33pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: ADS-B STC for the AXP340 Status Update
Posted By: AviJake
Subject: ADS-B STC for the AXP340 Status Update
Date Posted: 24 Dec 2014 at 9:21am
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As many readers know, we're in the end game in the pursuit of a new STC that enables one to take ASD-B compliant credit for the AXP340 Mode S Transponder. This permits the AXP340 to take GPS input from the IFD540, R9, G400W, G430W, G500W, G530W units and meet the requirements for ADS-B Out performance. All data has been turned into the FAA and they have largely delegated signoff authority back to us. There were a number of actions to be taken and they seem to have been largely completed now to everybody's satisfaction. We *should* have signed off STC authority sometime in January. ------------- Steve Jacobson sjacobson@avidyne.com |
Replies:
Posted By: Victor
Date Posted: 25 Dec 2014 at 10:17am
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Thank you for the update Steve. A Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to all at Avidyne and all the contributors to this fantastic forum from here in downunder. Victor Mooney M20J Sydney, Australia |
Posted By: hamilton
Date Posted: 28 Dec 2014 at 9:51pm
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Hi Steve, We have an aircraft due out 8th January with IFD540/AXP340. We were hoping that the STC/AML would be out by now for the transponder. We need a document number for the transponder install - can you advise the STC number or is that cheating. It will cost us around $1500 to get field approval for the matter of a week or two. FYI we have issues with the ADS-B out of the IFD540 - it locks up the transponder altitude reporting, so we are leaving that disabled at present. Many thanks for your great contributions here to keep us informed.
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Posted By: oskrypuch
Date Posted: 28 Dec 2014 at 10:14pm
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As far as I understand, the STC is not required until 2020, and then it will only be required for compliance when in airspace that requires ADS-B OUT. That aside, I have a 340/540 pair running nicely in my airplane. I've done the check at the faa.gov email, all checked out fine. So there should be no technical limitation to their correct operation currently, as long as the units are working correctly, and are properly configured.
* Orest |
Posted By: Old Bob
Date Posted: 28 Dec 2014 at 11:37pm
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As usual, I am confused. Will the "new" STC for ADS-B Out include a speed unit to provide the airborne signal or will we still have to install some sort of "Weight On The Wheels" switch to tell the world when the aircraft is airborne? Happy Skies, Old Bob |
Posted By: Old Bob
Date Posted: 28 Dec 2014 at 11:42pm
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Well, now I am even more confused! You have me listed as having "joined" in July of this year. I ordered and paid for my IFD 540 in August of 2011. Received my unit and had it installed in late October of this year! Hmmmm! Old Bob |
Posted By: MysticCobra
Date Posted: 29 Dec 2014 at 7:35am
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The "joined" date is when you created an account here on this message forum. The message forum has no way to know when you purchased or installed your Avidyne equipment. IFD540 P1001 pin 8 to AXP340 Primary pin 5 will handle the on-ground/in-flight transition for the transponder.
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Posted By: AviJake
Date Posted: 29 Dec 2014 at 8:36am
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Reference "hamilton"'s post above, the FAA has not given us the STC number for the AXP340 ADS-B STC yet. What did you mean by locking up the altitude reporting? What is the exact symptom(s) you are seeing? BTW, the new installation manual that will come out with that STC has a much better description of the AXP340 settings and what each selection does. At this point, I strongly suspect it's just a setting issue on your 340 but I'll wait to hear back about your symptoms. ------------- Steve Jacobson sjacobson@avidyne.com |
Posted By: hamilton
Date Posted: 29 Dec 2014 at 3:28pm
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Hi Steve, When I say locking up, the transponder will only transmit and display the altitude at turn on. If we pump aircraft up and down, the altitude does not change. Cycle power to transponder and it transmits the new altitude but still does not follow altitude variations. Pull CB for IFD and the transponder works perfectly. Change ADS-B setting from trig ADSB to garmin ADSB and the transponder works perfectly. We have serial altitude from transcal encoder to AXP, serial altitude from AXP to IFD per install manual and serial GPS from IFD to AXP. So we can either have mode C or ADS-B without altitude, not both. All altitude is set to "icarus" equivalent. Jared and TJ are looking into this.
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Posted By: Leonard
Date Posted: 13 Jan 2015 at 1:42pm
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I'm like Old Bob I stay confused. So, would it be better to delay my 340 order until the STC has been confirmed? And what is the problem with orders? Is it A:) lack of units (production), B:) a short circuit between sales and delivery/shipping, OR C:).......INSERT HERE......
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Posted By: oskrypuch
Date Posted: 13 Jan 2015 at 2:25pm
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No, there is no need to delay for the ADS-B OUT STC. That has no effect on function, and no effect on certification until 2020. I understand the short supply/delays are due to greater than expected sales, which is a good thing for Avidyne I guess, but not so good a thing for the folks waiting.
* Orest |
Posted By: MysticCobra
Date Posted: 13 Jan 2015 at 3:24pm
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To anyone still confused about the STC thing, understand that the AXP340 is completely certified and good to go as a plain-ol' transponder, like you've been using for the last 20 years. You can put one in your plane today and be legal for flying in airspace requiring a Mode C transponder. The only bit that's not STC'd yet is the ADSB-out capability. The function is there, and it meets all FAA performance specs, but the paperwork cycle is not quite complete--should be only a few more weeks, though.
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Posted By: AviJake
Date Posted: 05 Feb 2015 at 5:28pm
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(AXP340 ADS-B STC Status Update - 5 Feb 2015) It's really close. The FAA informed us this morning they intend to issue the TIA on Monday. That gives us approval to get the unit and aircraft through FAA conformity (an inspection that takes a few hours and should be completed on Tues, 10 Feb), which then clears us to perform the official for-credit flight test on Wed, Thurs, Fri weather permitting. Presuming the flight test goes as well as all the dry run flights did, it should then be a matter of a few days for the FAA to issue the STC. ------------- Steve Jacobson sjacobson@avidyne.com |
Posted By: roltman
Date Posted: 06 Feb 2015 at 2:05pm
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Steve, Just curious if the STC is just merely paperwork for a 340 owner, or will there be additional (i.e. hardware/wiring) requirements in the STC? I'm finishing up my 340 install along with my 2nd 540, and would like to address any additional STC requirements before my plane is closed up on Tuesday next week which will be prior to the STC being issued. |
Posted By: AviJake
Date Posted: 06 Feb 2015 at 2:09pm
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For those installations that already have a 340 then it's just paperwork. For all those folks who are flying now with a 540-340 combo and ran that FAA test to see if they were ADS-B compliant and got a yes, this STC will provide the paperwork to supports ADS-B compliance. Does that answer your question? ------------- Steve Jacobson sjacobson@avidyne.com |
Posted By: roltman
Date Posted: 06 Feb 2015 at 2:34pm
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Yeah, I was concerned, it'd say something beyond the install manual: Must be installed with ACME brand coax with silver overbraid on shielded cables that has wires with only counterclockwise spinning electrons or something crazy like that. Thanks |
Posted By: AviJake
Date Posted: 09 Feb 2015 at 1:24pm
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(AXP340 ADS-B STC Status Update - 9 Feb 2015) Due to the significant snowstorm pounding New England, the FAA did not open their MA Cert office today. So, the expected TIA I talked about on the 5 Feb post has not (and likely will not) be issued today. We hope this is just a one day slip due to wx. ------------- Steve Jacobson sjacobson@avidyne.com |
Posted By: AviJake
Date Posted: 10 Feb 2015 at 11:56am
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(AXP340 ADS-B STC Status Update - 10 Feb 2015) The snowstorms up in New England are taking a heavy toll. The FAA office is closed again today and one rep who did answer his mobile phone told us now to expect the TIA signoff on Thursday. So we're looking at a minimum 4 day slip now from the 5 Feb estimate. ------------- Steve Jacobson sjacobson@avidyne.com |
Posted By: AviJake
Date Posted: 12 Feb 2015 at 9:37am
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(AXP340 ADS-B STC Status Update - 12 Feb 2015) The FAA has just issued TIA which clears the path for the next step on the ADS-B cert. For those folks who want the summary story - we could have STC approval within a week. For those folks who love the details, we have the following steps to knock out: 1. Use the signed TIA to allow a FAA designated inspector (DAR) to perform a conformity inspection of the gear and airplane - presuming he is available, this takes a few hours. We're checking on his availability right now. Could happen today, could take a few days. 2. Once the DAR has signed off on that inspection, we perform the for-credit ground tests (a few hours in duration) then perform 3 flight tests (should take 1.5 days presuming weather, airplane and equipment all perform as expected). We've dry run all those flights so we're highly confident. 3. Send the FAA a quick thumbs up note when flight test is done. 4. FAA processes a few other paperwork items then issues the written STC. ------------- Steve Jacobson sjacobson@avidyne.com |
Posted By: SB Jim
Date Posted: 02 Mar 2015 at 10:43am
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Hi Jake, Can we get an update on when Avidyne expects the STC for IFD 540 / AXP 340 approval for ADS-B Out? My 540 ships today and we're adding a 340 to the order. I'd like to be able to have the avionics shop turn ADS-B Out "on". I've read that some shops are reluctant to do so absent the STC. Regards, Jim |
Posted By: AviJake
Date Posted: 02 Mar 2015 at 10:51am
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(AXP340 ADS-B STC Status Update - 2 Mar 2015) The update is there is no update. The data is languishing in FAA hands. We're hopeful something pops out late this week or early next week. Our FAA contact has told us to check back in mid-week this week. ------------- Steve Jacobson sjacobson@avidyne.com |
Posted By: ddgates
Date Posted: 02 Mar 2015 at 10:56am
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Jim: My shop turned on the ADS-B piece in September. There are varying opinions on whether an STC is required at this time. I think it will be required for 2020 compliance, but I personally don't think it is now. Regards ------------- David Gates |
Posted By: SB Jim
Date Posted: 02 Mar 2015 at 2:30pm
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Thank you both. Jim |
Posted By: jblodgett
Date Posted: 03 Mar 2015 at 11:57am
Steve, Does this mean that items 1 through 3 in your post of Feb 12th have been completed and you are only waiting for the FAA to act on item 4? |
AviJake wrote:Posted By: AviJake
Date Posted: 03 Mar 2015 at 8:36pm
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Yes. ------------- Steve Jacobson sjacobson@avidyne.com |
Posted By: AviJake
Date Posted: 10 Mar 2015 at 9:23am
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(AXP340 ADS-B STC Status Update - 10 Mar 2015) Still no movement on the part of the FAA. They are waiting on some data assessment from one of their own guys in the DC office and that has not come yet. The local FAA office doesn't know when the data analysis will pop out of DC so we continue to wait. ------------- Steve Jacobson sjacobson@avidyne.com |
Posted By: chflyer
Date Posted: 12 Mar 2015 at 4:07pm
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My installer is telling me that there is no STC basis for the 340 installation as simple S-xpdr (NOT ADS-B out). Tell me that is not true!! My a/c is a Cessna R172K. ------------- Vince |
Posted By: tony
Date Posted: 12 Mar 2015 at 7:07pm
| It has a TSO, which is good enough for mode S, Technically you need the TSO to operate ADSB out. However, according to Avidyne, the STC is imminent |
Posted By: oskrypuch
Date Posted: 12 Mar 2015 at 8:44pm
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And to add, the STC is NOT required until 2020. But many installers are nervous about paperwork. * Orest |
Posted By: SB Jim
Date Posted: 13 Mar 2015 at 8:31am
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Orest, Your interpretation of the regs may or not be accurate, but either way is not authoritative. My shop is among those who will install it but will not configure it to broadcast as they believe it has not yet been approved by the FAA. I'm hoping Avidyne gets the STC before the shop completes the installation. |
Posted By: oskrypuch
Date Posted: 13 Mar 2015 at 8:49am
Well, last I checked, I'm not paid by the FAA. ;-) Shops are of course not authoritative in their interpretation either, but it goes for their shop and you have to live with it. In any case, ADS-B is not required, and from what I understand most ATC units can't do anything with the information even if they can now see it, it is just our own impatience with a cool new feature! I am enabled, and did check out 100% at that faa.gov email address. * Orest |
Posted By: Craig767
Date Posted: 13 Mar 2015 at 12:06pm
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+1 Also enabled and checked out 100% per FAA. Don't know what all the fuss is with the installers, guess they are afraid of a FAA audit that they activated something without STC. If you can't wait it is probably turned off in 540 maintenance menu. Pretty simple to turn it on, there by releasing the shop from any action. I also believe it is some what of a safety of flight issue, while not seeing every aircraft out there it does help to see most.
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Posted By: BobsV35B
Date Posted: 13 Mar 2015 at 2:55pm
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I note with some dismay that many folks seem to be counting on the black boxes to advise them of traffic in the area. We who do occasionally fly airplanes with NO transponder can legally fly in at least ninety per cent of the US airspace below ten thousand feet (even higher in mountainous terrain) and there is no way anyone can see us without looking out the window. I hope none of us get so reliant on panel toys that we quit looking. I like having my new toy to play with, but I sure hope I do NOT let it consume the time I should be spending looking out the window. Remember what happened to Bob Collins when he was showing off his new 430s? 2020 mandates will NOT address that issue. Happy Skies, Old Bob ------------- Old Bob, Ancient Aviator |
Posted By: MysticCobra
Date Posted: 13 Mar 2015 at 3:25pm
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I don't think anyone is counting on black boxes to save them. They're just another tool in the toolbox. After having an uncertified ADS-B transceiver and yoke-mounted display in my aircraft, and having it point out all sorts of aircraft that have come within 3 miles of me without me ever seeing them even when I'm looking for them dilligently, as well as all the times that ATC has called out nearby traffic that I've never seen, it really rams home the point that the the ol' Mark I Eyeball and the prime directive of See And Avoid are not infallible guarantees of safety, any more than black boxes are.
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Posted By: BobsV35B
Date Posted: 13 Mar 2015 at 4:21pm
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No Argument with that point. Nevertheless. even the fanciest electronics will not see non transmitting traffic. Your eyeballs can see conforming as well as non comforming traffic as long as you are looking in the best direction. Look where you are going and don't spend time looking for traffic on the black box that is not in front of where you are going! Happy Skies, Old Bob ------------- Old Bob, Ancient Aviator |
Posted By: oskrypuch
Date Posted: 13 Mar 2015 at 7:33pm
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... and look for traffic (ahead) that is keeping the same relative position on the windshield. But that said, GA aircraft are all but invisible more than 1nm away, even in the best of circumstances. See & Avoid is a worthy axiom, but it falls far short of assured safety.
* Orest |
Posted By: Old Bob Siegfried
Date Posted: 13 Mar 2015 at 7:40pm
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Good Evening, this is getting totally off the subject of ADS-B so please excuse one more dumb comment. Flying has a safety ratio roughly equivalent to riding a motorcycle. It is not a real safe thing to be doing. We who fly are taking a calculated risk. Nice to try to make it safer, but if you want the highest degree of safety available in aviation, stick to riding the airlines. Beyond that, buy the best toys you can afford, and LOOK OUT The Window!! Happy Skies, Old Bob ------------- Old Bob |
Posted By: AviJake
Date Posted: 14 Mar 2015 at 5:05pm
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(AXP340 ADS-B STC Status Update - 14 Mar 2015) Some progress to report - the analyst in DC promises to look at the data on this coming Wed (18 Mar) so hopefully a thumbs up from him will get the local Boston office moving on the signoff and all these various (unwarranted) installer concerns become OBE. ------------- Steve Jacobson sjacobson@avidyne.com |
Posted By: SB Jim
Date Posted: 16 Mar 2015 at 1:06pm
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Jake, Thanks for the update. Mine goes in this week. Fingers crossed that you get this done before I leave the shop. Regards, Jim |
Posted By: AviJake
Date Posted: 16 Mar 2015 at 2:33pm
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Hope so but we're 100% at the mercy of the FAA at this point. ------------- Steve Jacobson sjacobson@avidyne.com |
Posted By: SB Jim
Date Posted: 16 Mar 2015 at 2:47pm
| Aren't we all? |
Posted By: AviJake
Date Posted: 16 Mar 2015 at 2:48pm
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I suppose. ------------- Steve Jacobson sjacobson@avidyne.com |
Posted By: SB Jim
Date Posted: 19 Mar 2015 at 4:55pm
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And how pray tell did our data review go? Inquiring minds want to know.... |
Posted By: AviJake
Date Posted: 19 Mar 2015 at 5:10pm
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It didn't. The FAA has not delivered on their 18 Mar date and has not provided an update yet. ------------- Steve Jacobson sjacobson@avidyne.com |
Posted By: SB Jim
Date Posted: 19 Mar 2015 at 5:58pm
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Jake, Thank you. Currently my shop is saying they'll be done "early next week" with my 540/340 installation, and they're one of those that is unwilling to activate the ADS-B Out absent STC approval as their interpretation of the regs is that the specific combination STC is required. That's why I've been following this closely; as much as I like the shop I'd prefer to avoid a return trip to activate ADS-B Out. Regards, Jim |
Posted By: ddgates
Date Posted: 19 Mar 2015 at 7:13pm
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Jim: PM sent. David ------------- David Gates |
Posted By: AviJake
Date Posted: 21 Mar 2015 at 10:42am
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(AXP340 ADS-B STC Status Update - 21 Mar 2015) The FAA analysts finished the review of the compliance data on Friday and they gave their thumbs up to our local FAA ACO cert office. That's the review we've been waiting on for about 6 weeks. Hopefully our local office will now quickly finish their paperwork signoff and issue the STC. Maybe this week? Can't tell for sure at this point but we're told that's all they were waiting on. ------------- Steve Jacobson sjacobson@avidyne.com |
Posted By: AviJake
Date Posted: 24 Mar 2015 at 12:58pm
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(AXP340 ADS-B STC Status Update - 24 Mar 2015) Just spoke with the local cert office project manager who is running this STC program through the FAA cert wickets. He thought there was virtually no chance for signoff this week. There is some reason to think we might have signoff by 3 Apr but based on historical progress, I'm not terribly optimistic on that date. We'll see. ------------- Steve Jacobson sjacobson@avidyne.com |
Posted By: SB Jim
Date Posted: 24 Mar 2015 at 2:09pm
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Hi Jake, Thanks for the update. Once you get the paperwork will we be able to download it from Avidyne? Regards, Jim |
Posted By: AviJake
Date Posted: 03 Apr 2015 at 2:18pm
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(AXP340 ADS-B STC Status Update - 3 Apr 2015) FAA handler just told us, he"should be able to get us the certificate next week" about 45 min ago. I'm optimistic but I'll believe it when I see it. ------------- Steve Jacobson sjacobson@avidyne.com |
Posted By: SB Jim
Date Posted: 03 Apr 2015 at 3:32pm
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Thanks. Meanwhile my 540/340 combo is playing nicely. The traffic info. is handy. |
Posted By: roltman
Date Posted: 03 Apr 2015 at 4:19pm
Now are you sure you weren't 2 days late making this statement? :) |
Posted By: MysticCobra
Date Posted: 04 Apr 2015 at 9:00am
I bet Steve is very careful not to post anything serious on April 1!
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Posted By: mkellock
Date Posted: 04 Apr 2015 at 6:17pm
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Great news... Our plane goes in the shop next week! ------------- Piper Archer II PA28-181 Tampa, FL |
Posted By: AviSimpson
Date Posted: 09 Apr 2015 at 9:26am
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Exciting news from the FAA this morning... The AXP340 received it's AML STC for ADS-B Out w/ R9, IFD540 and GNS430Ws/530Ws! ------------- Simpson Bennett Avidyne Corporation Product Manager |
Posted By: Gary T
Date Posted: 09 Apr 2015 at 9:37am
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Great NEWS! Many will be happy about this. ------------- Gary-T |
Posted By: ddgates
Date Posted: 09 Apr 2015 at 9:47am
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Can you post the STC document somewhere so those of who already have them installed can add to our document files?
------------- David Gates |
Posted By: MysticCobra
Date Posted: 09 Apr 2015 at 9:49am
| Excellent! When will it be available on the website for installers to reference? |
Posted By: SB Jim
Date Posted: 09 Apr 2015 at 10:17am
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Well done. Please make the STC available for download. Thank you. Jim |
Posted By: AviSimpson
Date Posted: 09 Apr 2015 at 11:07am
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I tried to attach the files here but there's a cap on the file size. I'll have the website updated with the new documents. ------------- Simpson Bennett Avidyne Corporation Product Manager |
Posted By: 94S
Date Posted: 10 Apr 2015 at 10:15am
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Excellent, my plane goes in the shop next week for a 340 + 540 install. Super excited! |
Posted By: PA20Pacer
Date Posted: 10 Apr 2015 at 11:46am
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Hi Simpson- Thanks for working to get the STC documentation up on the website. While looking to see what was out there, I came across a draft of the AXP340 Installation Manual for the STC installation with an approved position source for ADS-B. While perusing that manual, I noticed that Table 13 in Section 7.5.6 does not actually specify the weight-on-wheels configuration to be used in the AXP340 when it is connected to the weight-on-wheels output of the IFD540. That is, is the IFD540 weight-on-wheels output "low when ground" or "low when airborne"? I suppose this will be obvious when both units are installed, but it would be nice to have complete configuration information for the two Avidyne products in advance. Can you check into this and let us know the answer? Thanks. Bob Siegfried, II ------------- Bob Siegfried, II Brookeridge Airpark (LL22) Downers Grove, IL |
Posted By: Joe Jet
Date Posted: 17 Apr 2015 at 5:53am
Traffic info? You must have another box in addition to the 540/340 combo. |
Posted By: SB Jim
Date Posted: 17 Apr 2015 at 8:47am
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Bob II, I thought I saw updated info. on the weight on wheels wiring to the 340 in the IFD 540 Installation Manual. I'll check when I get a chance. I remember thinking the 340 manual was outdated. Regards, Jim |
Posted By: SB Jim
Date Posted: 17 Apr 2015 at 8:49am
Joe, I have a GDL 39 dual band receiver which transmits the ADS-B traffic and FIS-B weather to my iPad running Garmin Pilot app. Regards, Jim |
Posted By: SB Jim
Date Posted: 17 Apr 2015 at 8:50am
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PS. I'm waiting for the release of the MLB100. If it produces aural warnings (e.g., "traffic, 12o'clock") and displays weather and traffic on the 540 that is probably the way I will go. I wish it were dual band ADS-B In though. |
Posted By: PA20Pacer
Date Posted: 17 Apr 2015 at 8:54am
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Hi Jim- Anything you find out is welcome, especially if it may indicate that I am not looking at the latest manuals. My question is not with the actual wiring, but with the setup of the AXP340 in terms of properly interpreting the weight on wheels signal from the IFD540. I hope that you are continuing to enjoy your new toys. I think we are on the home stretch. Regards, Bob ------------- Bob Siegfried, II Brookeridge Airpark (LL22) Downers Grove, IL |
Posted By: AviSimpson
Date Posted: 17 Apr 2015 at 10:29am
Hey Bob, When using the IFD540 as the weight on wheels output select "low when ground". -Simpson
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Posted By: roltman
Date Posted: 17 Apr 2015 at 11:52am
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Simpson, Something I did notice, while it may be minor, using the WOW from the IFD540 causes the XPNDR at boot up to go in-air for approximately 24 seconds until the IFD540 finishes booting, at which point the XPNDR jumps to GND. I dunno what problems that will cause at a large airports with ground radar or ground based ADS-B solutions. As I type this I realize, while I can't confirm how mine was wired, but wouldn't using a "Low when Ground" make the failure mode to take the XPNDR to GND mode on an IFD failure? Ryan |
Posted By: SB Jim
Date Posted: 17 Apr 2015 at 2:34pm
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Hi Bob II, I misunderstood; thanks. The IFD 540 is great. So far mine has been flawless as has been the Comant GPS/COM antenna and the AXP 340 integration. Really pleased at this point. I hope Avidyne can build some momentum. Jim |