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Capt.Caveman View Drop Down
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    Posted: 27 Aug 2020 at 11:03am
Flying along with a IFD550 and the IFD100 on the iPad connected by WIFI...also Foreflight running in the back ground.

Decided to change the destination in route. I wanted to get a flight briefing for the new landing airport and notams.

Here is the sequence that has to be done.

Close the IFD100 App
Open the settings window
select WIFI 
Turn off the WiFi
Close settings
Open Foreflight again...if low enough to get cellular signal
Hit the pack tab on Foreflight
Close foreflight
open settings
open WIFI
Select the IFD and reconnect
close settings
open Forflight
set the new destination
send the new destination to the IFD
Then Proceed as normal.

Sound like a lot while a single pilot IFR maybe flying without autopilot ? this could be avoided if the Info between the IFD and IPAD was shared by Bluetooth instead of WIFI...Because when the WIFI is connected the cellular of the IPAD is disabled.

This would be a suggestion for the next Update

Mike

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AZ Flyer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Aug 2020 at 11:37am
In my experience, WIFI is far more robust than Bluetooth.
Stan
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HenryM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Aug 2020 at 2:15pm
I have found my iPad automatically connects to the cellular network if an internet connection is not available on the WiFi network. It remains connected to the cellular network when it determines the Avidyne network is not connected to the internet. I get some sort of message asking if I want to allow that, but can't remember the wording. My iPad gets data through the cellular network and also talks to the IFD over WiFi. I can transfer flight plans, get ADS-B on the iPad from my SkyTrax 100, and also get text messages and even calls from the cellular network when I am close enough to a cell tower. You may need to turn on WiFi assist. If WiFi connectivity is poor, WiFi Assist uses cellular data.

With the recent iOSs, toggling WiFi on and off is a matter of swiping down from the upper right hand corner of the iPad screen and touching the WiFi symbol. It is very quick and simple. No need to do anything on the IFD. As far as I know, Foreflight doesn't need to be stopped and restarted to do this.

Does the IFD100 app not reconnect properly if you turn WiFi off and on while the app is running?


Edited by HenryM - 27 Aug 2020 at 2:24pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HenryM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Aug 2020 at 2:23pm
From https://support.apple.com/guide/ipad/connect-to-the-internet-ipad2db29c3a/ipados:

Connect iPad to a cellular network (Wi-Fi + Cellular models)

Your iPad automatically connects to your carrierʼs cellular data network if a Wi-Fi network isnʼt available. If iPad doesn’t connect, check the following:

  1. Verify that your SIM is activated and unlocked. See Set up cellular service on iPad (Wi-Fi + Cellular models).

  2. Go to Settings  > Cellular Data.

  3. Verify that Cellular Data is turned on.


    When you need an Internet connection, iPad does the following, in order, until the connection is made:

    • Tries to connect to the most recently used available Wi-Fi network

    • Shows a list of Wi-Fi networks in range and connects to the one you choose

    • Connects to your carrier’s cellular data network (Wi-Fi + Cellular models)

      Note: If a Wi-Fi connection to the Internet isn’t available, apps and services may transfer data over your carrier’s cellular network, which may result in additional fees. Contact your carrier for information about your cellular data plan rates. To manage cellular data usage, see View or change cellular settings on iPad.


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Catani View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Catani Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Aug 2020 at 5:17pm
Originally posted by Capt.Caveman Capt.Caveman wrote:

Flying along with a IFD550 and the IFD100 on the iPad connected by WIFI...also Foreflight running in the back ground.

Decided to change the destination in route. I wanted to get a flight briefing for the new landing airport and notams.

Here is the sequence that has to be done....


That's a lot of work Mike.  To kill your wifi connection to the IFD in order to have your iPad search for an (illegal) cellular ground station, just swipe up or swipe from the upper right corner (depending upon the age of your ipad) to get the control screen.  One of the widgets should be wifi - just tap it to turn it on or off.  No need to open settings.  That's not such a great way to get weather, though, since that cellular connection is unreliable.

If you have an ADS-B weather source feeding your IFD, you should be able to find the weather you need on the IFD.  Or have the IFD feed ForeFlight the weather over your existing iPad wifi connection, which is what I do.  Then you don't need to switch much of anything.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Capt.Caveman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Sep 2020 at 5:46pm
I was out of town for a couple days...while i understand that everyone just told me the same thing i typed and answered a bunch of things that has nothing to do with the question and situation i posted...I will ask again. 

Is there a way for the IFD to share info with the IPAD thru bluetooth? I would like to have the WIFI not connected so i can connect to cellular if i want to...it doesn't matter the reason i want to...What if i want t o fly down the east coast over the ocean at 1000 AGL and stream netflix...it doesn't matter the reason...I would like to connect the iPad to the IFD by bluetooth...not WIFI

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HenryM View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HenryM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Sep 2020 at 6:08pm
When my cellular iPad Pro 10.5" connects to LIO_WiFi, it figures out there is no internet connectivity and asks me if I want to connect through the cellular network. This should do what you are trying to achieve. 

I don't know if there is a way to connect strictly via Bluetooth, but even if there isn't, the iPad should still connect to the internet via the cellular network if you have a recent model with the latest iPadOS. 


Edited by HenryM - 08 Sep 2020 at 6:33am
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Catani View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Catani Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Sep 2020 at 8:20pm
Originally posted by Capt.Caveman Capt.Caveman wrote:

Is there a way for the IFD to share info with the IPAD thru bluetooth?

Sorry, I didn't get that was the only thing you cared about.  The answer is "no."
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Capt.Caveman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Sep 2020 at 11:38am
To legally fly to an airport...The FAA can violate you for not having "all available info for the flight". If you are flying along and chance your destination for any reason other than an emergency....you "should get a briefing"...If you bust a "TFR or a notam" you could be in violation with the FAA. While being able to "Pack" for a flight thru Foreflight is a great way to get info...it is odd that Avidyne wants to brag that you can work with foreflight but disconnects you from using the options that Foreflight has available to you.

And on a second note...look at the bottom of my post...
"This would be a suggestion for the next Update"

I was trying to find an answer to a issue i had(if there is one) and also to get some productive chatter about what could be done for the next update...Guess i was on the wrong forum.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HenryM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Sep 2020 at 11:58am
Does your iPad not ask you if you want to connect to the internet via the cellular network a short time after you connect to the IFD network? You don't need to wait for the next update. It already works! (at least for my iPad with the most recent version of the operating system).

The cellular network is not always reliable, but works most of the time if you are not flying very high in the flatlands. I wouldn't be expecting to be able to get a briefing or other internet data. I'd be happy when I do receive it, but I wouldn't bet my life or my certificate on it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chflyer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Sep 2020 at 11:59am
Actually, "getting a briefing" per se is a pre-flight activity. And your reference to "all available info for the flight" is taken from FAA info about flight preparation, not in-flight activity. There is no documented evidence to my knowledge that the FAA expects airmen to be "online to the internet" during flight. Similarly, a FF "pack" is a pre-flight activity, something that I'm sure FF doesn't expect pilots to be doing enroute.

You made your suggestion in your first post. Everyone here can read and saw your suggestion. The comments weren't addressed to that. The responses were indeed "productive chatter", but in an attempt to help you to address your "need" pending any possible/eventual update.

This forum is for Avidyne users to help other Avidyne users, in addition to providing requests/suggestions to Avidyne for improvements/features.

Given your tone of voice, you may indeed be on the wrong forum. 
Vince
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Capt.Caveman View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Capt.Caveman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Sep 2020 at 12:53pm
Tone of voice?...i asked question from real world experience and the suggestion for an improvement to cut down on the items and procedures for making a flight safer and i got peoples opinion of what they prefer, what their IPDA's do under different conditions, and now another opinion of what happens with cellular coverage and how it is unreliable. Then i get an opinion of my tone of voice, Kinda funny.

Next time i will start if off with..."Please read the entire question and answer only the question...I don't want any other opinions if you can't answer the question"....Would that help? 


Edited by Capt.Caveman - 08 Sep 2020 at 12:55pm
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Catani View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Catani Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Sep 2020 at 2:29pm
Originally posted by Capt.Caveman Capt.Caveman wrote:


Next time i will start if off with..."Please read the entire question and answer only the question...I don't want any other opinions if you can't answer the question"....Would that help? 

Probably not Caveman.  I for one would have ignored that post and saved myself some time.

I still see no question in your original post, so it's hard to know what you're complaining about.   What I do see in your post is a complex description of how not to obtain inflight info.  I tried to help by pointing out ways to get cell connections simpler and faster, while at the same time warning that doing so is not a good idea, since it's illegal, not to mention unreliable and therefore unsafe.

I did not reply to your suggestion (not a question - a suggestion) for BT connectivity.  I thought it a bad idea, which I kept to myself.  There are solutions at hand. Your problems are not Avidyne related.  There are better, safer, more reliable ways to get weather and NOTAM info for inflight diversions than the method you use.  They are available now, and require no re-design of any of your cockpit equipment.  Get with a CFI or CFII and learn a few of them.  Just a suggestion - not a question - do as you wish of course.  Good luck to you.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Capt.Caveman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Sep 2020 at 10:27am
Catani,

The question was can the IFD and an IPAD be connected by bluetooth instead of WIFI...it was answered by you as "no".Thank you. But, I don't know if you are a employee of Avidyne or a tech guru that has the ability to answer that question so I must take it as opinion....Second,i would hope people would also see an advantage to having the option for WIFI or Bluetooth. But as you can see, you went out of your way to interject and give your opinion and throw mud with the claim of "my tone". then come up with some excuse to make this about you helping? just so you know that...This is not about you or your thoughts. If you had simply answered " Not as far as you know" would have been more productive. Or send me a link to where this was discussed already.
I never asked for you opinion of what is safe or legal or recommended or endorsed by you...Since you brought it up. Quote by you... " I tried to help by pointing out ways to get cell connections simpler and faster, while at the same time warning that doing so is not a good idea, since it's illegal, not to mention unreliable and therefore unsafe." where does it say it is illegal? Using cellular phones for communication during a lost com situation with a bluetooth headset is a very reasonable and reliable for of communication...I doubt the law you are quoting says you can not use cellular while flying except for a lost comm situation is illegal. if it did..why are you giving me suggestions on how to get cellular cell connections simpler and faster if it is illegal?
From you post it only confirms what you posted in the beginning that i should only take your answer as opinion and give it the credit of your knowledge base...thanks for your opinion.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dmtidler Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Sep 2020 at 12:08pm
Originally posted by Capt.Caveman Capt.Caveman wrote:


where does it say it is illegal? 


I believe this is the answer to your question.

47 CFR 22.925 - Prohibition on airborne operation of cellular telephones.

Cellular telephones installed in or carried aboard airplanes, balloons or any other type of aircraft must not be operated while such aircraft are airborne (not touching the ground). When any aircraft leaves the ground, all cellular telephones on board that aircraft must be turned off. The following notice must be posted on or near each cellular telephone installed in any aircraft:

“The use of cellular telephones while this aircraft is airborne is prohibited by FCC rules, and the violation of this rule could result in suspension of service and/or a fine. The use of cellular telephones while this aircraft is on the ground is subject to FAA regulations.”



Edited by dmtidler - 09 Sep 2020 at 12:08pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Capt.Caveman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Sep 2020 at 8:15am
Dmtidler, I agree with you...but i think that might be old info see below and let me know your thoughts

My current read is from an AC 120-76D dated 10/27/17
  1. 9.1.1  Portable EFB. Portable components supporting EFB applications are considered PEDs. For a PED to be considered an EFB, the PED must actively display Types A and/or B software application(s) (e.g., when a PED is displaying personal email, the PED is not considered an EFB; when the same PED is authorized and actively displaying a Type B aeronautical chart application, it is then considered an EFB).

    It would seem that during EFB operations...which is the option i was giving in the real world situation i started this topic with would support my use and also include cellular transmission...

    And it also includes...10.1.3.3.3 If the portable EFB includes a transmitter, such as a Wi-Fi®, cellular, or Bluetooth transmitter, the user/operator must demonstrate the portable EFB transmitter will not adversely affect other aircraft systems during the aircraft EMC ground tests. The portable EFB transmitters must be configured to operate at their maximum RF output power during the aircraft EMC ground tests.


    Which one could argue that is says...Transmitter.  

    On that note the use of a IPAD to receive the signal from the IFD550 would be receiving info. It is also transmitted back to the IFD550 and this could be a a whole other conversation.

    I am confident that Avidyne has done such testing to get the approval to use an IPAD with the IFD series and the IFD100 connected thru WIFI and the IFD series too work with Foreflight

    I would venture to say that no one here on this forum has done a comprehensive test to see if their IPAD has met this standard in their aircraft under the above listed AC.


    Then again i could be wrong...

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cruiser Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Sep 2020 at 8:31am
In the U.S., Federal Communications Commission (FCCregulations prohibit the use of mobile phones aboard aircraft in flight. Contrary to popular misconception, the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) does not actually prohibit the use of personal electronic devices (including cell phones) on aircraft.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dmtidler Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Sep 2020 at 10:07am
Originally posted by Capt.Caveman Capt.Caveman wrote:

Dmtidler, I agree with you...but i think that might be old info see below and let me know your thoughts


As of my post yesterday, 47 CFR 22.925 was still a current regulation.

Per part 1 of your cited AC 120-76D, this AC only applies to operations conducted under 14 CFR parts 91K, 121, 125, or 135. This AC essentially only applies to fractional ownership, airline, or charter operations.

AC 91.21-1D (Use of Portable Electronic Devices Aboard Aircraft) dated 10/27/2017 applies to 14 CFR part 91 operations. Below is the applicable section 9 from AC 91.21-1D:

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Capt.Caveman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Sep 2020 at 10:42am
Thanks for that update...And it appears to agree with what i was saying.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dmtidler Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Sep 2020 at 12:50pm
 
Originally posted by Capt.Caveman Capt.Caveman wrote:

Thanks for that update...And it appears to agree with what i was saying.

As I read it, section 9 of AC 91.21-1D says it is illegal to have a PED with its cellular capabilities enabled (not in airplane mode) while airborne in U.S. airspace. There is an exception to this essentially for those relatively few aircraft equipped with an operating picocell or similar 47 CFR 22.925 compliant device. Section 9 also states this cellular-enabled restriction goes away if the FCC revises 47 CFR 22.925 to allow such operation.

I thought you were questioning where it says it is illegal to enable cellular on a PED while inflight in U.S. airspace. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Capt.Caveman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Sep 2020 at 7:38pm
And i would also say one could argue that the FAA chooses their words carefully and i would think that there is an argument when they specifically used the words “Cellular Telephone” not “cellular transmission and reception.”. But that could be another topic that is far off base from what i asked originally.

Thanks for making my brain work a little today


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dmtidler Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Sep 2020 at 8:51pm
Originally posted by Capt.Caveman Capt.Caveman wrote:

And i would also say one could argue that the FAA chooses their words carefully and i would think that there is an argument when they specifically used the words “Cellular Telephone” not “cellular transmission and reception.”. But that could be another topic that is far off base from what i asked originally.

Thanks for making my brain work a little today



No problem!

It is my opinion that the word "telephone" was chosen because that is how it is referred to in the FCC regulation from 1991. At that time pagers and cellular telephones were about the only users of cellular technology. I'm not aware of any instance where the FCC regulates radio receivers; my impression is that the FCC is focused on regulating transmitters in the radio realm. Since pagers were primarily receivers only, the primary cellular transmitters outside of the cellular towers themselves to regulate in 1991 were cellular telephones. 

I believe the FAA clearly defined what is encompassed in the term "Cellular Telephone Use" to include PEDs including mobile telephones and computers with cellular network capabilities in section 9.1 of AC 91.21-1D.


Edited by dmtidler - 10 Sep 2020 at 8:52pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Capt.Caveman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Sep 2020 at 9:01pm
just was on phone B.S.with my attorney...I read it to him and he laughed and had me send it to him. While he agrees how you could come up with your determination. 
He also feels strongly about my argument that they use specific words and would most likely omitted the word telephone (And would have had a paragraph on why they omitted it) if they meant cellular transmissions of all kinds. 

Sad part is he feels we are both right...go figure a lawyer would try to settle it without a trial. But for all intended argument they should clearly spell it out better to not open a can of worms like this turned into.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote paulr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Sep 2020 at 8:42am
Originally posted by Capt.Caveman Capt.Caveman wrote:

just was on phone B.S.with my attorney...I read it to him and he laughed and had me send it to him. While he agrees how you could come up with your determination. 
He also feels strongly about my argument that they use specific words and would most likely omitted the word telephone.

Since you seem to enjoy a good debate, here's a suggestion. Why don't you send the FCC a request for clarification? Ask them whether an LTE-enabled data device (such as an iPad or a Microsoft Surface Pro) is considered to be a cellular "telephone" for purposes of 47 CFR 22.925. The FAA is used to receiving these types of inquiries (many of which eventually lead to the issuance of ACs) and I'm sure the FCC is too.

I will bet you US$100 that, if you request such an interpretation and they answer you, that they will consider any RF-enabled data device using any licensed cellular band to be a "cellular telephone" within the meaning of 47 CFR 22.925. The obvious plain-language intent of the rule was to block the airborne use of devices with cellular-band transmitters.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Capt.Caveman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Sep 2020 at 3:26pm
Was it a typo that you suggested the FCC instead of the FAA...I have no issues with contacting both.

here are several schools out there that are recommending during lost Comm's to use all resources available to you to contact ATC or Flight services to inform of your problem and to notify of your intent...Since a lot of people are now using Bluetooth connections to headphones in planes...if you have cellular signal..."you can use that to contact ATC". While i know that your answer will be that is during emergency situations...and some other kind of reason to say...well that is a different story...Your interpretation does not allow for fit and you are betting that the FAA and FCC will agree that if you loose radio com and pick up the phone...That the FAA could find you in violation. I doubt that ATC would tell you in that situation you must hang up and put uyyour phone in airplane mode and don't call back until after you are on the ground. You need to use your head and all tools available to you.

If you read the PED are legal to use while running a airplane driven app and call it a EFB...if you are checking your email...it is a PED and must be turned off.

They took the time to write that...I think they thought the word telephone out pretty clearly.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote paulr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Sep 2020 at 3:55pm
I think there's a fundamental disconnect here.

The FCC "owns" 47 CFR 22.925. It is an FCC rule that you cannot use cellular devices in flight, period, full stop. The FAA had nothing to do with it and couldn't supersede it or change it, even if they wanted to. 22.925 was created to prevent destructive RF interference from airborne devices from affecting the terrestrial cell network. That's within the FCC's bailiwick. FCC rules are also why it's not legal to play music on 121.5 or call the tower controller an asshole over the radio. The FCC used the phrase "cellular telephone" in their rules.

The FAA rules say that you can't use any RF device in flight that may or does interfere with navigational instruments. In the past, that was construed to include PEDs. Now it doesn't. That's been well covered earlier in the thread. The FAA made up the term "PED" and "EFB". The FCC doesn't use those terms, didn't define them, and couldn't care less what they mean to the FAA and its subjects.

FAA rules (e.g. 91.3) say you can deviate from part 91 in case of emergency. Some parts of the FCC rules (e.g. 97.405) allow you to deviate from them in case of emergency. Some do not.

You are clearly looking for someone to say that it's legal to use cellular devices in flight and it. Is. Not. 

Just as with speeding, the fact that this is unlawful doesn't mean that 
  • there's never a good reason to do it
  • if you do it you will be caught and punished
  • the rule is observed more in the breach
  • the rule is modern, up to date, and appropriate
I'm bowing out of this discussion now.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oskrypuch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Sep 2020 at 12:41pm
Nicely penned paulr!

* Orest
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Capt.Caveman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Sep 2020 at 5:29pm
Very odd...3 other website forums and the similar question was discussed...Not my question but the interjection and Hijacking of this conversation and everyone else feels different. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Capt.Caveman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Sep 2020 at 6:30pm
I have a question for Paulr

Based on your post...I just looked at the section you listed with the "period.full stop"...I would think we can't stop at that wording if there is a definition for it...i found this from 2002

§22.905   Channels for cellular service.

The following frequency bands are allocated for assignment to service providers in the Cellular Radiotelephone Service.

(a) Channel Block A: 869-880 MHz paired with 824-835 MHz, and 890-891.5 MHz paired with 845-846.5 MHz.

(b) Channel Block B: 880-890 MHz paired with 835-845 MHz, and 891.5-894 MHz paired with 846.5-849 MHz.

[67 FR 77191, Dec. 17, 2002]

Do you see an update to that definition? Or to the "new cellular frequencies" I have not found one yet.

The iPad i am using is a 4G LTE from Verizon and while searching for the frequency that it operates on...here is what i find...I might be missing something...But the FAA and FCC spell things out pretty clear...and it seems you are taking their words and making your own determination of what "they mean".


Brief Overview Of A Few Worldwide Mobile Carrier Frequencies:

Carrier NameBandFrequency
AT&T 4G LTE700 MHz LTE (Lower Band)710-716 MHz & 740-746 MHz
Sprint 4G LTE1900 MHZ LTE1850-1990 MHz
Sprint & Clear 4G WiMAX LTE dataXohm & WiMAX2.5-2.7 GHz
T-Mobile 3G & 4GAWS (UMTS Band 4) 1700 & 21001710-1755 & 2110-2155 MHz
Verizon 4G LTE700 MHz LTE (Higher Band)746-757 MHz & 776-787 MHz








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paulr View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote paulr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Sep 2020 at 9:17am
You're clearly engaging in what I would call "argument by Google." You google briefly until you find something that you think supports your position, then build an argument around it, but you don't understand what you're posting. 

Wikipedia has a pretty decent list of the current assigned frequency ranges. When you look at it, you'll see that some of the frequencies the iPad et al support fall into other services. What you're citing is a rule that outlines frequencies for a specific service, the "cellular radiotelephone service." That term has a very specific meaning to the FCC. So do the terms PCS and AWS. So does the "700 MHz service." All of these services have separate legal definitions and regulations that cover them. They are all described in different parts of 47 USC (e.g. PCS is covered in Part 24). 

Your iPad is not a "cellular radiotelephone service" device. However, if you read 22.900, which you apparently didn't, you'll see that all "public mobile services" are governed by part 22. That means that 22.925 covers PCS, AWS, 700, SMR, and all the others. 

With that said, my bet of $100 that the FCC will tell you you can't use the "cellular" functions of your iPad in flight still stands.

tl;dr: you're trying to make an argument based on selective Googling, You're wrong, and getting wronger the more you argue. Peace be upon you.
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Capt.Caveman View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Capt.Caveman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Sep 2020 at 9:45am
Funny you mention it. I was thinking the same thing. As far as my research...the cut and paste I did from “Google” was so I didn’t have to type it all out...when you type something to support your statement...it looks like opinion. All I did was cut and paste from the FCC website...not just some article on google. 

While you and I are completely different. Most of my posts have said...I could be wrong. Your however have been blatantly opinionated and show your opinion to supports the facts you find. And not the other way around...which it should. 

In 2002 the FCC clearly defined the cellular frequency and at that time it was not used for data transmission to an iPad for weather...I give you that. It was for data transmission of audio signals(voice converted to data). As the cellular service changed frequencies changed and were added. I am very confident that the people at the FCC were aware of the changing technologies and most likely would have added the additional frequencies if they so choose to do so. To sit back and think that the FCC felt that they did not need to update the list...rest assured it if someone’s job to do just that. And to think they choose not to over the past 18 years especially with the addition of EFB’s with cellular connections (with a written determination of how a PED can and cannot be used in the cockpit)is just a show of how determined you are to blindly believe something and not to engage in an open discussion without throwing rocks for the fear of being wrong. And I will be in contact on Monday morning with the FCC to get a answer...and I will post the results when I get them. And I have no problem if I am wrong admitting it. You sir have made it clear you would never admit you were wrong. I would venture to same that after a decision from the FCC you would come up with something colorful like...” well it is still not a good way to do it...or some other response about safety”
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