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Released AXP340 Pilot Guide Available

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AviJake View Drop Down
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    Posted: 30 Oct 2013 at 8:53pm
We've just posted a draft copy of the AXP340 Mode S ADS-B Transponder Pilot Guide for download.  It can be accessed via:  


Let me know if you have any feedback.
Steve Jacobson
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oskrypuch View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oskrypuch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Oct 2013 at 9:18pm
Thanks much for the posting, had a read.

Absence of an electronic temp is small, although not insignificant, ....

But it appears that the unit may not accept GPS ground speed, or 429 airspeed or some other proxy, in lieu of squat switches as an indicator of GND/FLT state. As you know, most smaller aircraft do not have squat switches. If so, that would mean losing (1) automatic STBY/ALT sequencing, (2) the GND Mode-S state, both of which I have in a competitor.

That is apt to be a show-stopper for many, especially if the unit will indeed be priced at a premium, compared to its comparators.

Comments? Might these be added in future?

* Orest



Edited by oskrypuch - 30 Oct 2013 at 10:06pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oskrypuch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Oct 2013 at 9:27am
In any case, I am looking for an ES transponder that will work with my new 540, reportedly the 330ES will not due to some "proprietary" issues.

* Orest



Edited by oskrypuch - 31 Oct 2013 at 11:02am
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tony View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tony Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Oct 2013 at 10:17am
Steve,
Thank you so much for posting both links.  While reading this draft version I saw where one can interface a squat swtich to the transponder and the unit will transistion from standby to active on take off.  Now I'm not complaining and I'm only trying to help, so given that I think thats the old way we were taught to use a transponder.  In this new CNS/ATM enviroment, that guidance has changed. 
 
 The AIM now says, "Civil and military transponders should be turned ‘on’ to the normal altitude-reporting position prior to moving on the surface to ensure the aircraft is visible to ATC [ground] surveillance systems."
 
Your first software update should use ground speed from the IFD540 to automatically switch from standby to active. 


Edited by tony - 31 Oct 2013 at 10:20am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oskrypuch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Oct 2013 at 10:54am
Tony,

In support of ground surveillance ASDE-X systems, at many large airports you have been requested for some time to have your transponder active on the ground, that is at least "mode C", at all times. As you mention, the US AIM now recommends the same at ALL airports.

Now, from what I understand, and I am hardly an expert, Mode S transponders when in GND mode (vice STBY) and interrogated by ground surveillance radar, will actually answer correctly. The reply is a little different than when in FLT mode. I have visited many airports with ASDE-X and have never been requested by ground to change anything with my transponder, and it currently does cycle between FLT & GND mode. Mode S units just tag some extra info (tailnumber, class of aircracft, etc.) along with the Mode C altitude information.

Now, if that is all true, then with a Mode S unit, cycling is fine because it will answer interrogations correctly in both GND & FLT mode. But, with a Mode C only unit, as you indicate, you should now leave it Mode C active at all times. Until/if there is a function that will support ground sensing that is useable in a given plane, with the 340 Mode S transponder, you could just leave it continually active as you would with Mode C units. 


Steve, can you give a definite answer on this issue, that is the whole Mode S "GND" mode (not specific to the 340), and ASDE-X in general terms as it applies to transponder use across the board?

* Orest



Edited by oskrypuch - 01 Nov 2013 at 12:10pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AviJake Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Nov 2013 at 6:51am
Orest has the Mode C vs Mode S behavior/description correct.

The AXP340 is a Mode S transponder and does have GND mode for just that reason.

And, with respect to the auto toggling from ground-to-air-to-ground states, the initial release of the IFD540 does transmit that air/ground state via an output discrete AND the AXP340 is capable of receiving that input and auto-toggling ground/air state as required.   To take advantage of that, some extra wiring will likely need to be added between the 540 tray and 340 tray.

I am updating the draft Pilot Guide to clearly reflect that (and other good input I've gotten from readers/reviewers).
Steve Jacobson
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oskrypuch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Nov 2013 at 9:09am
Thanks much Steve for clarifying that.

* Orest

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MysticCobra Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Nov 2013 at 4:47pm
Not sure if this is the right place to post this, so please tell me to go elsewhere if appropriate.

I currently have a UAT receiver in my aircraft.  It receives both FIS-B (weather) and TIS-B (traffic) data and I have a portable display device that will show that information.

However, since it's only a receiver, there is no ADS-B out signal to "wake up" the FAA's TIS-B broadcast, so I only get traffic data when I'm near another plane with ADS-B out.

If I were to install a 1090-ES transponder like the Avidyne AXP-340 to generate the ADS-B OUT from my aircraft, would I then get the TIS-B broadcast on my UAT receiver?

In other words, speaking strictly from an ADS-B technology perspective (and ignoring cost), if one has a UAT receiver and wants to get TIS-B traffic, is there any difference between creating the ADS-B OUT signal via UAT or 1090-ES?


Edited by MysticCobra - 05 Nov 2013 at 4:48pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oskrypuch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Nov 2013 at 5:21pm
Either a UAT out (978) or 1090 extended squitting transponder will denote you as participating in the US, below 18,000. Above 18,000 you will require 1090. Outside the US, even under 18,000, UAT is unlikely to be valid where ADS-B is required.

Once you are participating you get all the traffic data from ADS rebroadcast stations on the ground (also unique to the US), assuming you have line of sight. That includes non-ADS-B traffic, that is Mode C only aircraft. The secondary radar data will be crossfed and blended into to the traffic package broadcast on TIS-B.

If there is no line of sight to a ground station, you will only get direct ADS-B broadcasts from other ADS-B aircraft. Big guys will be using 1090 only, small aircraft in the US are more likely to be broadcasting UAT out. So in order to see all area traffic, you would need to be both UAT in & 1090 in.

Outside the US, there will be no UAT support, nor ground stations, nor FIS-B weather, nor would you be participating with UAT out only. But it is likely that ADS-B elsewhere will only be required if you fly above 18,000 (confirmed for Canada), in which case you would have to have 1090 out anyway.

Bottom line, in the US, below 18,000, there is no difference between using 1090 out or 978 out to participate, and as long as you are line of sight to a ground station (or have both UAT in & 1090 in) you will see the identical traffic information using either 1090 out or 978 out.

* Orest



Edited by oskrypuch - 05 Nov 2013 at 7:40pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MysticCobra Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Nov 2013 at 10:57pm
Many thanks, Orest.  Since I fly exclusively in the US, I guess really the only downside, technology-wise, to having an 1090-ES transponder would be in areas where there was no ground-based TIS-B broadcast.  Since I am unlikely to be sharing altitudes with airliners, it would probably be better for me to be broadcasting my position on the 978/UAT band so that other light GA aircraft would have a better chance of seeing me.

Since most of my flying is around busy Class B and C airspace, I'm guessing the time I spend in such TIS-B-less airspace will be minimal, so that concern is small for me.

Now, I have to decide if the convenience of an IFD540+AG3P40 is worth the extra thousands of $$$ over a portable UAT transceiver solution...


Edited by MysticCobra - 05 Nov 2013 at 10:58pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oskrypuch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Nov 2013 at 11:33pm
Yep, you got it, except ...

A portable receiver alone (they are a dime a dozen presently) will NOT give you reliable traffic, only weather, unless you have ADS-B out independently on either 1090 (or 978) as well.

And, looking at it the other way around, a 540+340 alone is still incomplete. The Mode S with ES of the 340 will broadcast ADS (ADS-B out) on 1090, make you "legal" in 2020, but you still will not get ADS-B in (TIS-B & FIS-B).

If you need a new transponder, then the 340 is a good unit. But, if you already have a transponder (perhaps with no ES) that you are happy with, then a panel mount ADS-B transceiver might be the most $ efficient solution. These are just starting to appear. Avidyne is expecting to release something along these lines as well. These will typically give you three things, although a base model may skip the ADS-B out, and a high end model may provide a certified WAAS source additionally.

ADS-B out on 978
ADS-B in on 978 & 1090 

With the above, you have everything you need without touching your transponder, as long as you have a 540 providing a WAAS location. You are legal in ADS-B space, you get all the traffic and weather to your ASPEN, 540 and other certified instruments, and without the dependability and stowage issues that come with portable ADS-B in units, that you would otherwise have to rely on.

* Orest



Edited by oskrypuch - 05 Nov 2013 at 11:36pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DaveM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Nov 2013 at 1:46am
It will be interesting to see if Avidyne can come up with these ADS-B receivers in time for the 540 release. I am sure it has crossed their minds it would make for an attractive package. There is also the issue of the offered upgrade to owners of the TAS600 systems for a $2,000 ADS-B upgrade. I have never seen an explanation of what that would involve. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oskrypuch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Nov 2013 at 9:10am
The TAS600 system is very interesting to me, partly because in Canada we will never have ADS-B TIS-B traffic, and have never had TIS-A (Mode S). It would also cover you at small uncontrolled (but busy) airports, where you are unlikely to see ADS-B coverage, and where the risk is actually greatest. I tend to avoid these when travelling, but my home airport is such an airport, so not much I can do about that.

Doesn't help with gliders or NORDO folks, but that is another song.

* Orest



Edited by oskrypuch - 06 Nov 2013 at 9:17am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MysticCobra Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Nov 2013 at 12:01pm
Yeah, I currently have an iFly 720 + SkyRadar UAT receiver, so I get ADS-B in on 978...but only FIS-B.  I want to step up to ADS-B out to get reliable TIS-B traffic, too.

The most cost-effective solution is to swap my current "in-only" portable UAT receiver for an "in+out" portable UAT transceiver.

My earlier posts were just to explore the idea of keeping my current UAT receiver and adding a 1090-ES device, instead.  Similar end result, technically, but much more expensive.


Edited by MysticCobra - 06 Nov 2013 at 12:04pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oskrypuch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Nov 2013 at 12:20pm
Got you.

* Orest

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AviJake Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Nov 2013 at 8:45am
Updated version of the AXP340 Pilot Guide just posted in same location.  It represents changes induced by a lot of your feedback.  Thank you to everyone who sent in comments/improvements/whatever for the Pilot Guide.

I viewed it as a successful attempt at collaborative PG writing.

As I skimmed the last set of posts on this thread, I don't see any open questions.  Everyone agree or did I miss something?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oskrypuch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Nov 2013 at 9:21am
Delighted we were collectively of help.

Can we help you with the 540 manual now?  ;-)

* Orest

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AviJake Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Nov 2013 at 9:35am
I'm planning on posting the IFD540 PG on/about Friday 6 Dec.  I'll be out of the country for a long period of time between now and early Dec and I have a few more clean up items I want to resolve before posting.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jack Seubert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Nov 2013 at 12:57pm
Orest, you a really slick!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oskrypuch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Nov 2013 at 2:21pm
Originally posted by AviJake AviJake wrote:

I'm planning on posting the IFD540 PG on/about Friday 6 Dec ....  

OH MY!

Had to read it twice just to make sure it was indeed what I was reading.

OUTSTANDING!

* Orest



Edited by oskrypuch - 12 Nov 2013 at 2:22pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tony Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Nov 2013 at 4:16pm
Steve,
 
love the collaboration and transparency.
 
Thank You!
 
Tony
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AviJake Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jan 2014 at 3:02pm
Updated (and not draft) version of the AXP340 Pilot Guide just uploaded.  Available via the same link:

http://www.avidyne.com/support/downloads/xpdr.asp


Steve Jacobson
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jan 2014 at 7:30am
Is the installation manual available?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AviJake Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jan 2014 at 2:19pm
I'll try to dig up the Install Manual for the AXP340 and post a link on Friday 17 Jan.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AviJake Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jan 2014 at 4:06pm
Install Manual now available at that same link:

http://www.avidyne.com/support/downloads/xpdr.asp


Steve Jacobson
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