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rpostmo View Drop Down
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    Posted: 14 Apr 2021 at 8:26pm
I have an NGT9000 hard wired to the IFD540, a connected IFD440, and 
I run an IFD100 on my Ipad Mini 4.   There are ADS-B towers near my location.  Still there are
aircraft that don't show up.   What traffic is still missed by ADS-B?
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skitheo View Drop Down
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What version of software is your IFD540 running?
My IFD540 is direct wired to my NGT9000. I saw traffic when running 10.2.4.1, but have not seen any on the IFD since upgrading to 10.2.6.1.
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rpostmo View Drop Down
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I'm running 10.2.4.1.   There seems to be two issues going on.
An occasional aircraft that doesn't show up on the NGT9000, but 
more often,  traffic on the NGT9000 that doesn't seem to be displayed
the IFDs.  I'm still trying to analyze this, I believe some of it is 
because I don't have the range set to the optimal size on the IFDs.
That being said, I can't say enough good about the NGT9000.
It is so user friendly and easy to read, I prefer to watch the 
traffic on its display vs on the larger IFD screens.
Bob
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dmtidler View Drop Down
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Originally posted by rpostmo rpostmo wrote:

I have an NGT9000 hard wired to the IFD540, a connected IFD440, and 
I run an IFD100 on my Ipad Mini 4.   There are ADS-B towers near my location.  Still there are
aircraft that don't show up.   What traffic is still missed by ADS-B?

My thoughts:
  1. Non-transponder equipped aircraft; these aircraft will not be displayed through the ADS-B system.

  2. My understanding is that the NGT9000 is dual band ADS-B. To save bandwidth, the ADS-B towers will not send out ADS-R (rebroadcast) information tailored around your aircraft's location because your NGT9000 ADS-B Out reports its dual band ADS-B In capability. 

    Any ADS-R information your NGT9000 receives from the nearby ADS-B towers would be a result of your aircraft "piggybacking" the ADS-R data intended for area aircraft whose ADS-B Out settings indicate an installed single band (978 or 1090) ADS-B In reception capability.  The ADS-R information sent to those other area aircraft is only for traffic within 15NM and plus or minus 3500' of those aircraft. Based on the location and altitude of the other area single band ADS-B In equipped airplane, that "hockey puck" of ADS-R traffic data may not even include your aircraft's current location. ADS-R also only includes the traffic that the other ADS-B In equipped aircraft cannot receive directly. For instance, an aircraft that has a UAT (978) ADS-B In receiver such as the SkyTrax100 will only trigger "hockey puck" ADS-R traffic data regarding aircraft that are ADS-B Out on 1090; UAT (978) ADS-B Out traffic is directly received by the SkyTrax100.

    If your ADS-B In antenna is only on the belly of the aircraft, I believe it may be possible for the aircraft structure to occasionally mask direct reception of ADS-B Out aircraft based on their relative position. If your NGT9000 is not also piggybacking that same ADS-R data from the nearby ADS-B towers (based on the specific ADS-B In capabilities of any proximate single band ADS-B In equipped aircraft) that traffic target may not display temporarily.

  3. TIS-B aircraft are transponder equipped non-ADS-B Out aircraft within radar coverage. TIS-B aircraft within the same "hockey puck" described above to your aircraft are broadcast through the nearby ADS-B towers to your ADS-B In equipped aircraft. TIS-B aircraft displayed beyond those limits are being piggybacked based on the "hockey puck" around other ADS-B In equipped aircraft. If either the the transponder equipped non-ADS-B Out aircraft is not in radar coverage or your aircraft is not within ADS-B tower reception, the TIS-B traffic target will not be displayed. There may be other systematic reasons that TIS-B traffic does not display as well.
I'm sure there are other circumstances of missed ADS-B traffic that I not have considered.
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PA23 View Drop Down
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Originally posted by rpostmo rpostmo wrote:

I have an NGT9000 hard wired to the IFD540, a connected IFD440, and 
I run an IFD100 on my Ipad Mini 4.   There are ADS-B towers near my location.  Still there are
aircraft that don't show up.   What traffic is still missed by ADS-B?


Since you have an NGT-9000 you are obviously ADS-B out equipped

You will not see other aircraft that are not transponder equipped or do not have a functioning transponder.   Your transponder will alert the ADS-B ground stations that you can accept both 1090 and 978 in and that you do not need ADS-R (rebroadcast from 1090 to 978 or vice versa) as you can/will hear the ADS-B broadcasts directly.  You will however need TIS-B broadcast from aircraft that are not ADS-B out compliant.

Keep in mind that although the current regs say that if the aircraft is transponder equipped the transponder (and ADS-B out if install) must be on at all times, including on the ground.  It amazes me how often I see aircraft just outside an area where a transponder is required that is not transmitting.  Granted the transponder can be broken but I'm guessing pilots simply turn them off so "they can't be tracked"

It also surprises me how many ADS-B out devices are misprogrammed, about 2 weeks ago I was being overtaken by an aircraft with a ground speed of 300kts, I looked at the aircraft type and it showed me that it was a helicopter.   It wasn't a helicopter it was an hawker.

Back to the NGT-9000, I found that I prefer not to have traffic displayed on the IFD and rather have it displayed solely on the NGT-9000's screen, partially because I only have the 440 and secondly the NGT's screen is uncluttered with only traffic being displayed on the screen, I find it much easier to see.  Also since I don't display traffic on the IFD I'm not sure of the vertical range, the NGT on "normal" mode will only show traffic that is within 2900 ft above or below you unless you select unrestricted mode, or either above or below at which point I think it is 9000ft.
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rpostmo View Drop Down
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I think aircraft without ...or nontransmitting..transponders are the likeliest answer here,
but also those out of range of radar or adsb towers.  
I agree, I much prefer to watch the traffic on the dedicated NGT9000 display than on 
the IFD540  or the IFD100.  It is helpful to be able to change the range of viewing
for traffic while leaving the desired range alone on the IFDs.
Bob
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skitheo View Drop Down
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Points: 165 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote skitheo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Apr 2021 at 6:48pm
Another thing to remember is that you can test your IFD traffic display when on the ground: On the NGT-9000, on the home (transponder) screen, select the System Test button. Any displays which are fed by the NGT-9000 should display at least 3 nearby traffic targets. In my case that's the IFD540 and the Aspen Evolution MAX MFD.
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AlanWilliams View Drop Down
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I can get the traffic from my NGT-9000 on both of my Aspens and the IFD-540.  However, weather will not show up on the IFD-540 but it does display on both Aspens.  Any idea what switch or setting I am missing?
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skitheo View Drop Down
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Originally posted by AlanWilliams AlanWilliams wrote:

I can get the traffic from my NGT-9000 on both of my Aspens and the IFD-540.  However, weather will not show up on the IFD-540 but it does display on both Aspens.  Any idea what switch or setting I am missing?


In your IFD540 MainRS232 Config page, (3/15?), the channel to which the NGT-9000 is connected should be configured to "Capstone HS Trfc+Wx". Based on the fact that you're getting weather on the Aspens, that would be my first check.
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PA23 View Drop Down
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by an chance was this a retrofit from a Garmin 530W to a IFD540 where the NGT9000 was previously connected to the 530 for traffic?
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Cruiser View Drop Down
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Originally posted by skitheo skitheo wrote:

Originally posted by AlanWilliams AlanWilliams wrote:

I can get the traffic from my NGT-9000 on both of my Aspens and the IFD-540.  However, weather will not show up on the IFD-540 but it does display on both Aspens.  Any idea what switch or setting I am missing?


In your IFD540 MainRS232 Config page, (3/15?), the channel to which the NGT-9000 is connected should be configured to "Capstone HS Trfc+Wx". Based on the fact that you're getting weather on the Aspens, that would be my first check.

Traffic comes over the ARINC 429 lines
Weather comes over the RS232/422 connection.

my guess is the weather is not wired to the IFD. 
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PA23 View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Cruiser Cruiser wrote:

Originally posted by skitheo skitheo wrote:

Originally posted by AlanWilliams AlanWilliams wrote:

I can get the traffic from my NGT-9000 on both of my Aspens and the IFD-540.  However, weather will not show up on the IFD-540 but it does display on both Aspens.  Any idea what switch or setting I am missing?


In your IFD540 MainRS232 Config page, (3/15?), the channel to which the NGT-9000 is connected should be configured to "Capstone HS Trfc+Wx". Based on the fact that you're getting weather on the Aspens, that would be my first check.

Traffic comes over the ARINC 429 lines
Weather comes over the RS232/422 connection.

my guess is the weather is not wired to the IFD. 

The reason for my previous question.

one correction, ARINC 429 only supports traffic, but RS232/422 supports Traffic and weather
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