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Waypoint as Origin on Flight Plan

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Flybuddy View Drop Down
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    Posted: 25 Jan 2019 at 3:03pm
Hi, I'm a newbie who has just ordered a 440. It'll probably be a few weeks till all items ordered (TruTrak, Aspen E5 and IFD 440) arrive and are installed. In interim I started watching some vids and playing with the simulator app. Having some trouble with one issue. My home airport (FL59) is a private field and not in the sim database. I set up a waypoint and put in the correct lat and long and saved. However, I can't seem to figure out how to insert that waypoint as the origin on a flight plan. Is this just a glitch in the sim software or am I missing something? Are private airports in the real database? thx
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AviSteve Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jan 2019 at 11:34pm
The nav database does contain some private airports.  Generally, if one does not exist, I can get it added within a cycle or two.  I just checked the latest database and it does not contain FL59.  I'll send a request to Jeppesen and maybe it will even be in there before you get your airplane back.  Cross your fingers.

The identifier you enter for an origin must be an airport.  Normally, that's not a huge problem, but I realize that's how you position the aircraft in the trainer app.  Your only choice at this point is to use KRSW as the origin for the trainer.
Steve Lindsley
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DH82FLYER Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jan 2019 at 12:48am
 
Originally posted by Flybuddy Flybuddy wrote:

Hi, I'm a newbie who has just ordered a 440. It'll probably be a few weeks till all items ordered (TruTrak, Aspen E5 and IFD 440) arrive and are installed. In interim I started watching some vids and playing with the simulator app. Having some trouble with one issue. My home airport (FL59) is a private field and not in the sim database. I set up a waypoint and put in the correct lat and long and saved. However, I can't seem to figure out how to insert that waypoint as the origin on a flight plan. Is this just a glitch in the sim software or am I missing something? Are private airports in the real database? thx

However you can add a User Waypoint-Airport as an ‘origin’ by nominating it as a “Waypoint”, rather than an “Origin” from the dropdown menu when constructing a Flight Plan...see 540 Pilot Guide pg 2-4.

Steve, this feature is not very clear in the current Pilot Guide and perhaps needs to be rewritten. 

Thomas
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Bob H View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bob H Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jan 2019 at 1:38am
Originally posted by DH82FLYER DH82FLYER wrote:

However you can add a User Waypoint-Airport as an ‘origin’ by nominating it as a “Waypoint”, rather than an “Origin” from the dropdown menu when constructing a Flight Plan...see 540 Pilot Guide pg 2-4.
Yes, in the airplane, but not in the sim.  As Steve points out, the sim uses Origin to re-position the aircraft geographically from the default KMLB to the users desired location, hence the need to use KRSW to at least get close until FL59 gets added to the database.
Bob
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Flybuddy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jan 2019 at 8:46am
Thx Guys! appreciate the help :)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ibraham Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Jan 2019 at 10:06pm
There was a problem adding the departure airport as the first waypoint on a flight plan. On few occasions, after takeoff and activating the autopilot, it kept trying to go back  to the departure airport instead of navigating to the next waypoint. That was fixed by removing the departure airport from the saved flight plan.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Flybuddy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jan 2019 at 1:54pm
Originally posted by Ibraham Ibraham wrote:

There was a problem adding the departure airport as the first waypoint on a flight plan. On few occasions, after takeoff and activating the autopilot, it kept trying to go back  to the departure airport instead of navigating to the next waypoint. That was fixed by removing the departure airport from the saved flight plan.


The sim and manual don't show this as an issue. Are you saving flight plans where the first waypoint is listed as the origin?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ibraham Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jan 2019 at 5:42pm
Yes, that happened with the saved flight plans, having the departure airport as first waypoint.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AviSteve Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jan 2019 at 6:07pm
That's certainly not the way it's supposed to work and I've never seen that behavior.  Ibraham, are you saying you've experienced the following behavior?

1) Create a flight plan with a non-airport as the first waypoint
2) Copy the flight plan into a stored route
3) Activate the stored route
4) On the FPL page, the first waypoint is shown as an "Origin" leg.
Steve Lindsley
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MysticCobra Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jan 2019 at 7:03pm
Originally posted by Ibraham Ibraham wrote:

There was a problem adding the departure airport as the first waypoint on a flight plan. On few occasions, after takeoff and activating the autopilot, it kept trying to go back  to the departure airport instead of navigating to the next waypoint. That was fixed by removing the departure airport from the saved flight plan.
I have seen similar behavior on rare occasions, when the first waypoint (origin airport) did not get designated as the unique "Origin" waypoint, but rather just a run-of-the-mill intermediate waypoint.  I don't know what caused that to happen...usually, when I enter the departure airport it's automatically set as the "Origin", but I don't know what conditions must be met for that to actually happen (thus I have no guess at why it didn't happen on these rare occasions).  

I normally don't use stored flight plans, but rather just punch them in for one-time use each time I fly.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ibraham Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jan 2019 at 2:28pm
I had created some flight plans/routes with our home airport as the origin/first waypoint. after takeoff and heading east of the airport towards the 2nd waypoint on the saved flight plan, activating the autopilot caused the airplane to start turning back towards the departure airport. That only happened with the saved flight plans with the departure airport as the first waypoint. When I realized the cause of that behavior, I deleted the departure airport from the saved flight plans and it corrected the issue.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bob H Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jan 2019 at 3:26pm
Originally posted by Ibraham Ibraham wrote:

I had created some flight plans/routes with our home airport as the origin/first waypoint. after takeoff and heading east of the airport towards the 2nd waypoint on the saved flight plan, activating the autopilot caused the airplane to start turning back towards the departure airport. That only happened with the saved flight plans with the departure airport as the first waypoint. When I realized the cause of that behavior, I deleted the departure airport from the saved flight plans and it corrected the issue.
For your home airport in the saved flight plan, which was it, origin or first waypoint?  I think the distinction is important.  I fly out of areas that aren't in the database and believe I've seen this behavior.  I have to set the departure as the first waypoint rather than the origin.  I don't think it unreasonable for the IFD to consider that first waypoint (no origin) as a "TO" waypoint.  We just need to understand how the IFD540 architecture is structured.  It is then simple to just activate the first leg before departure (no need to delete the departure).  Not a bad idea anyway to check before departure where the GPS is first going to send us.  This is all supposition on my part as I've not tested it, but will next chance I get.  Perhaps Steve can clarify if this is the behavior Avidyne intended and expects.

Edited by Bob H - 29 Jan 2019 at 3:36pm
Bob
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AviSteve Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jan 2019 at 4:01pm
Being "the first waypoint in the flight plan" is different from being "the origin".  An origin is a specific kind of leg.  You can insert it manually by choosing "Origin" in a dropdown.  Only one is allowed per flight plan, so if there's one already there, you won't see that choice in a dropdown.  If you choose "Waypoint" from the dropdown, the thing that gets entered is just that - a waypoint - not an Origin.  The origin can never be active.  If you try to go direct-to the origin, the FMS will create a leg with the same identifier and then make that the active leg.

An origin is more of a placeholder with the main purposes being to provide an anchor for the first leg and to provide a means to enter a departure (as applicable).

Steve Lindsley
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bob H Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jan 2019 at 4:23pm
Originally posted by AviSteve AviSteve wrote:

Being "the first waypoint in the flight plan" is different from being "the origin".  An origin is a specific kind of leg.  You can insert it manually by choosing "Origin" in a dropdown.  Only one is allowed per flight plan, so if there's one already there, you won't see that choice in a dropdown.  If you choose "Waypoint" from the dropdown, the thing that gets entered is just that - a waypoint - not an Origin.  The origin can never be active.  If you try to go direct-to the origin, the FMS will create a leg with the same identifier and then make that the active leg.

An origin is more of a placeholder with the main purposes being to provide an anchor for the first leg and to provide a means to enter a departure (as applicable).
Thanks Steve.  So, based on your response, if the departure point is entered as the first waypoint, not origin, it will be treated as a "TO" waypoint.  Then engaging the autopilot will turn the aircraft back toward the departure point.  This makes perfect sense to me.
Bob
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ibraham Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jan 2019 at 12:10am
Thanks Steve
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AviSteve Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jan 2019 at 3:39pm
Circling back to the start of this thread...  I just got confirmation that FL59 will be added to cycle 1903 nav data.
Steve Lindsley
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Flybuddy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jan 2019 at 5:02pm
Wow!  Thx much...couple of folks in here with Avidynes, I'll pass the word :)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jtblohm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jun 2020 at 8:02am
Hello Steve: I have the same situation with my home airport: GA18 not in Avidyne database making it impossible to properly originate a flight plan from home. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AviSteve Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jun 2020 at 3:30pm
Originally posted by jtblohm jtblohm wrote:

Hello Steve: I have the same situation with my home airport: GA18 not in Avidyne database making it impossible to properly originate a flight plan from home. 
I just submitted the request.  It won't make it for cycle 2007, so expect it in 2008.  If I hear otherwise, I'll let you know.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gring Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jun 2020 at 9:04am
Steve, I'm finding that many of the airports on the sectional (89NY, NC99 are two that I use) etc. are not in the database, and haven't been since the beginning of testing.  They ARE in foreflight, so the data is available.  It may be a difference between Jeppesen and the FAA database, but the data is available.

It would be helpful if ALL airports on the sectionals were included in the databases, especially when using the NRST button in an emergency.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AviSteve Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jun 2020 at 8:37am
I couldn't agree more.  It's not for a lack of trying...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zeddy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jun 2020 at 2:45pm
Hi Steve,
Please add the following private airports to the data base:  OH66 OA12.
Thanks.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oskrypuch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jun 2020 at 8:29pm
Originally posted by Zeddy Zeddy wrote:

Hi Steve,
Please add the following private airports to the data base:  OH66 OA12.
Thanks.


You'll need to contact Jepp. They will be happy to do so.

* Orest
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AviSteve Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jun 2020 at 10:50am
Originally posted by oskrypuch oskrypuch wrote:

Originally posted by Zeddy Zeddy wrote:

Hi Steve,
Please add the following private airports to the data base:  OH66 OA12.
Thanks.


You'll need to contact Jepp. They will be happy to do so.

* Orest
I made the request.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zeddy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jun 2020 at 10:53pm
Thanks for the info on contacting Jepp and thank you Steve for submitting the request!
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