Seattle Avionics Alternative to Jeppesen

I'm in!! Doesn't hurt my feelings to ditch Jeppesen.

Do not like Jepp. Their product is sub par. Their website is from the 90s.

We need competition. Just like what Avidyne did to the GPS market we need Avidyne to allow Seattle Avionics.

Not a fan of Jepp.  Would like to see an option for data source.

Much prefer Jepp plates, especially for non-US use.

As far as data, well navdata is navdata, but I've seen some folks that have had real problems with SA update procedures.

Of course a choice could be offered, but integration would require significant work I expect, and resources might be better spent elsewhere.

* Orest

Edited by oskrypuch - 21 Sep 2017 at 9:54am

My wish list:

Edited by comancheguy - 21 Sep 2017 at 12:14pm

I live at a private airport and it is in the database.

The one thing that I really don't like about my IFD is Jeppesen.   Every year when my renewal comes up I think about selling my IFD and replacing it.   But if Avidyne offered an alternative to Jeppesen I don't know why anyone would buy an alternative product to the IFD.

Good Afternoon Freff.

Me too!

I talked to Seattle avionics over a year ago.  At that time they were ready and willing to go ahead and begin the work.  They were just waiting for the go ahead from Avidyne.  I do know that there is a fair amount of testing Avidyne would have to perform to validate that the nav data in the IFD platform.  I would hope that most of the testing could be done in the lab with just a small subset validated in flight.  I just cant see the business case for Avidyne to put the effort in.  I hope I'm wrong and there is a business case. 

Simpson if your reading these, please give us a second source for Nav data.  Charts will always  be more cost effective on foreflight.

Nice thread - Great minds think alike.

Edited by n7ifr - 26 Sep 2017 at 12:15am

Larry,

My 3 IFD 540, the EX600 and EX5000 all would be on a Seattle Avionics Subscription if that happens.

There are quite a few of us asking, but I haven't seen any response from AviSimpson, nor anyone else from Avidyne. What should we infer from that?

I concur

What I know is that competition keeps the costs in line for everyone.  Left to their own devices Jeppesen will always charge a kings ransom for their products.  If we can get SA as an additional approved supplier for the 440/540 line, then we can all make the choice that fits our needs and budgets the best.  Some will surely stay with Jeppesen, but other (like me) would jump the Jeppesen ship in a heartbeat if SA data were available.

I spoke with one of the Avidyne reps at Oshkosh and mentioned that 9 years of Jeppesen data equaled the initial purchase price of the 540.  How many people do you suspect do the math and refuse to buy a 540 due to the ongoing cost of data?  How many additional units could Avidyne sell if they just had a more reasonable data supplier?  I don't know the answers but I'm sure they have lost business because of their inability to use more economical data.

Let's push to make this happen!


Edited by M20Kid - 11 Oct 2017 at 5:45pm

Jepp is very interested in the accuracy of their data, and in my experience do solicit and investigate corrections offered.

I'm guessing there must be a business arrangement that was made early on in the development that Avidyne can't get out of.  Something like Jepp invested their own Funds for the DO-200 cert on this platform.  I have no way of knowing, just speculating.    The silence is telling.  Kinda made a deal with the devil. 

If the interface is truly open, then there is nothing stopping SA from taking on a cert of there own.

Edited by tony - 12 Oct 2017 at 9:35am

AviSimpson wrote: skitheo wrote: There are quite a few of us asking, but I haven't seen any response from AviSimpson, nor anyone else from Avidyne. What should we infer from that? We are listening and this topic is nothing new. We have had numerous conversations in the past and in the last 6 months with Seattle Avionics about providing data to the IFDs. Out of those discussions, we identified many hurdles that would need to be addressed in order for their chart data to be implemented on the IFDs.

Thank you Simpson for the response.  Is the same true for the Nav data?  I'm not interested in the charts, and I would guess others feel the same as I do.  The charts on Foreflight are just find for me. 

They do not provide certified navigation data.

To process FAA approved NavData the supplier must obtain a LOA (Letter of Approval) stating they comply with RTCA DO-200A

Check out Advisory Circular 20-153A. It describes what the FAA requires for a company to get approved as a data supplier. The process doesn't look very easy to me. It's not something that Avidyne or anyone else can do in their spare time.

Jeppesen's expertise is getting stuff like this done. Avidyne's isn't.

Mike

I don't see anything particularly daunting in AC 20-153A.   Of course, I'm the kind of engineer who DOES do this kind of thing in his spare time.  interesting problems related to things I care about are... INTERESTING!

In my cursory review, it appears that both SA and Avidyne would need an LOA - but virtually all the LOA work for Avidyne would have already been done for Jepp.  (Well, already done to be in the business they are in, documented for the FAA for the Jepp-related LOA.)

I do not currently have access to RTCA's DO-200A, but my exposure to other RTCA documents  would suggest there are a miriad of detailed checklist items to spend time addressing, but I see no reason to expect anything that would represent a sea change or significant effort for a competent commerical software provider.

My conclusion (and this is of course speculation) is that one or more of the following is true:
-   Avidyne receives kickbacks from Jepp for data purchases.
-   Avidyne has a contract with Jepp that in return for some level of Jepp support provided during development/certification, Avidyne would not allow an alternative data provider (hopefully for a small finite period of time, but some people are not good negotiators...)
-   Jepp provided Avidyne proprietary code and an API to expedite development/certification, and Avidyne is unwilling or unable to sever themselves from that liability.   (This is most disconcerting, for a lot of reasons.)

ddgates wrote: Relevant to the conversation is that I got my renewal bill (for just Southwestern coverage area) = $1085 for the Avidynes and...

Edited by oskrypuch - 18 Oct 2017 at 10:23pm

oskrypuch wrote: ddgates wrote: Relevant to the conversation is that I got my renewal bill (for just Southwestern coverage area) = $1085 for the Avidynes and... That is odd, I have the full North America (have to to get Canada + US) navdata + obstacles, and all the charts for Canada and US, coast to coast, with the included up to four portable devices. Sub is $1850. Why are you paying so much, for so much less. * Orest