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G3X, GFC 500 and an IFD 540 |
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krjaction 
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Joined: 07 Nov 2019 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 12 |
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 Topic: G3X, GFC 500 and an IFD 540Posted: 07 Nov 2019 at 4:28pm |
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Hello,
First post. I just ordered an IFD 540 and 440 to swap in for my 530W and 430W. Been playing with the trainer app for months and love the IFD. I have a 1979 Piper Turbo Dakota and I'm having my panel rebuilt next year and adding a G3X, G5 backup and GFC 500 autopilot. I have some questions about VNAV capture on the GFC 500. I read that to get VNAV to work properly from the IFD to the G3X and G5 the IFD needs a baro source and a setting in setup set to ENABLE LABELS. I know the IFDs can have altitude constraints on each waypoint, but I'm a little fuzzy on whether or not the VNAV capture mode on the GFC 500 will work like it does with a GTN 750 with an IFD 540. Thanks, Kevin |
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skitheo
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Posted: 02 Jan 2020 at 5:49pm |
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On a similar vein, will the altitude constraints work with the TruTrak Vizion / BK aerocruze 100 in GPSS mode?
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chflyer
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Posted: 03 Jan 2020 at 10:10am |
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FWIW, I have a G5 AI (called ADI by Garmin) primary, not backup, connected to my IFD540. When I added the G5, the IFD540 calculator started showing the altitude in green, indicating that it was being automatically populated. Also, when flying a missed approach with the first leg climb to altitude, the IFD540 now automatically sequences to the next leg when that altitude is reached rather than presenting the "manual sequencing required" message. Besides the G5, you also need a GAD29B to present the ARINC labels to the IFD.
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Vince
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skitheo
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Posted: 03 Jan 2020 at 10:15am |
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Yes, same results when I replaced all of my 6-pack with an Aspen EFD 2000 MAX. However, my question is: will the IFD send VNAV labels via GPSS for altitude constraints? EDIT: I would test it myself, but have a fuel tank out of the wing for repair.
Edited by skitheo - 03 Jan 2020 at 10:17am |
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programmer@pcmforles
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Posted: 03 Jan 2020 at 10:19am |
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I don't believe so. I installed a GFC500 in a Bonanza for a customer that had dual G5 we did last year and an IFD550. The VNAV functionality will not enable and it is not an allowed function with the GNS530 and since the IFD series is built on the Architecture of the GNS series I believe as far as the garmin autopilot is concerned they are one in the same. The GTN series do allow VNAV lablels to pass to the GFC500 via G5's or G3X. I'm not sure why the IFD and GNS for that matter is not allowed to send them along for VNAV for crossing altitudes, etc...
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programmer@pcmforles
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Posted: 03 Jan 2020 at 10:22am |
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I will be flying my IFD550 tied to TruTrak next tuesday and I will put in a couple crossing altitude commands into my flight plan and see if the TruTrak will pick them up, but I do not believe it is programmed to pick the VNAV info out of the 429 Stream out of the navigator and process them in any way.
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chflyer
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Posted: 03 Jan 2020 at 10:25am |
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My comment was just to indicate that the IFD is clearly getting the baro setting you mentioned is required.
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Vince
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skitheo
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Posted: 03 Jan 2020 at 10:27am |
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I did verify that the TT/Aerocruze will couple vertical guidance when fly an RNAV LP approach. Different label? [EDIT: Thanks Bryan]
Edited by skitheo - 03 Jan 2020 at 10:28am |
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chflyer
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Posted: 03 Jan 2020 at 10:29am |
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A lot of the questions here and in other threads would be easier to troubleshoot if Avidyne had a way (maintenance page?) to show what ARINC labels are being received and presented. A second best would be to have them documented in the IM manual and make it readily available as Garmin does, without needing to go through a dealer.
Edited by chflyer - 06 Jan 2020 at 12:49pm |
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Vince
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programmer@pcmforles
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Posted: 03 Jan 2020 at 10:49am |
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Newest IM manual
6.1.9.1 GPS ARINC Output Page 74 There is a full listing of the ARINC labels and which ones are active for each configuration
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programmer@pcmforles
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Posted: 03 Jan 2020 at 10:53am |
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Did a copy and paste, it is a complete mess since it was in a table format, but here is a listing and the little dosts were telling which configurations that particular label is enabled under
6.1.9.1 GPS ARINC Output The data output on the GPS ARINC out port depends on the configuration of the unit. Below is a list of configurations and label outputs for each: 1. ARINC 429 2. GAMA 429 3. GAMA 429 Graphics 4. GAMA 429 Graphics w/Int 5. GAMA 429 Pro Line 21 6. GAMA 429 Sextant 7. GAMA 429 Bendix King **Note: Label 117 and 327 are enabled or disabled via a separate Mx setting
Label Number Parameter Name 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 001 Distance to Go • • • • • • • 002 Time to Go • • • • • • • 012 Ground Speed • • • • • • • 074 Data Record Header • • • • • • 075 Active Waypoint From/To Data • • • • • • 100 Selected Course 1 • • • • • • • 113 Message Checksum • • • • • • 114 Desired Track • • • • • • • 115 Waypoint Bearing • • • • • • • 116 Cross Track Distance • • • • • • • 117 Vertical Deviation • • • • • • 121 Horizontal Command • • • • • • • 125 Greenwich Mean Time • • • • • • • 147 Magnetic Variation • • • • • • 203 Pressure Altitude • • • 251 Distance to Go • • • • • • • 252 Time to Go • • • • • • • 260 Date • • • • • • 261 GPS Discrete Word 1 • • • • • • 275 LRN Status Word • • • • • • 300 Station Declination, Type and Class • • • • • • 303 Waypoint Header • • • • • • 304 Waypoint ID #1 - #3 • • • • • • 305 Waypoint ID #4 - #6 • • • • • • 306 Waypoint Latitude • • • • • • 307 Waypoint Longitude • • • • • • 310 Present position Latitude • • • • • • • 311 Present position Longitude • • • • • • • 312 Ground Speed • • • • • • • 313 Track Angle • • • • • • • 314 True Heading • • • • • • • 315 Wind Speed • • • • • • • 316 Wind Angle • • • • • • • 320 Magnetic Heading • • • • • • • IFD5XX/4XX Installation Manual 600-00299-000 Page 75 of 267 Revision: 18 321 Drift Angle • • • • • • • 326 Lateral Scale Factor • • • • • • 327 Vertical Scale Factor • • • • • 330 Conic Arc Inbound Course • • 331 Conic Arc Radius • • 332 Conic Arc Course Change Angle • • 333 Airport Runway Azimuth • • 334 Airport Runway Length • • 335 Holding Pattern Azimuth • • 340 Procedure Turn Azimuth • • 351 Distance to Destination • • • • • • 352 Estimated Time to Destination • • • • • • 371 Specific Equipment ID • • • • • • 377 Equipment Hex ID Code • • • • • • • |
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programmer@pcmforles
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Posted: 03 Jan 2020 at 11:24am |
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Yes, TT definitely will get VNAV for coupled approaches, I believe it is the same label, but I'm wondering if perhaps the info contained in the label will not work for waypoint altitudes. I guess I should have been a bit clearer. The TT and the GFC 500 do use the VNAV label info as they will both do coupled up approaches, but I'm wondering if there is not enough info contained in that label for crossing altitudes, top of climb altitudes, etc..... Or perhaps those commands are not injected into the data stream in the GNS and IFD architecture. It could be as simple as an FAA certification issue not allowing it. A lot of this is pure speculation based on what I have seen, tried, read, etc... I have no inside engineering knowledge at all on this.
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krjaction
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Posted: 06 Jan 2020 at 11:11am |
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There are special Garmin labels added in the GTN software 6.51 to support VNAV on the G5/G3X Touch and GFC 500. They are called Garmn429 labels.
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chflyer
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Posted: 06 Jan 2020 at 12:47pm |
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That would seem to imply that a G5/GFC500 does not support VNAV guidance coming from an IFD. Or am I jumping to conclusions here?
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Vince
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krjaction
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Posted: 06 Jan 2020 at 2:09pm |
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that’s what I can’t find a definitive answer on.
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chflyer
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Posted: 01 Feb 2020 at 6:42am |
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Can anyone explain what is meant by VNAV guidance here?
My suspicion is that this refers to the Garmin-specific VNAV (+V) guidance on LNAV and LOC approaches or VFR or perhaps VNAV on enroute or arrival crossing altitudes. I don't believe that the IFDs provide VNAV enroute / arrival crossing altitude guidance to any autopilot, so it seems to be a GTN-specific function.
Edited by chflyer - 01 Feb 2020 at 7:58am |
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Vince
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Gring
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Posted: 01 Feb 2020 at 8:05am |
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The VNAV that is being discussed is the ability for the GFC500 to follow the altitude constraints on waypoints in the flight plan automatically based on your descent profile in the user setup pages.
Garmin has a data stream from the GTN series of navigators that will allow this capability with the GFC500/600 autopilots. The way it works is to setup the Descent profile in the user settings - you know, the one that is used for the VSR data block calculation. Then put an altitude constraint on one or more waypoints or a loaded approach - cross WIGGY intersection AT 5000. The press the the VNAV button on the GFC500 and the autopilot will fly along until it hits the VNAV profile descent rate, automatically descend to 5000 and cross WIGGY. It is my understanding that the GNS navigators do not have this capability either. I believe it is because the GTN is using a data stream on a different communications line - CAN or ARINC, but I haven’t looked into it in detail. LPV, ILS, LNAV/VNAV approaches work just the same as any other autopilot. These function fine.
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chflyer
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Posted: 01 Feb 2020 at 9:44am |
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That's what I suspected, fundamentally.
What exactly do you mean by the Descent profile in the user settings? I understand the VSR data block to just be a dynamic value reflecting the VS (in the user setting units) required to reach the wpt at the end of the current leg from the current altitude at current ground speed. Are you thinking of the advisory glideslope shown for approaches without a published one? I'm sure you're right that the GFC500 VNAV function is only supported by the GTN, not the GNS either. I've heard that the data stream is different (and unpublished so Avidyne can't just emulate it). It can't be related to an ARINC connection alone because the GNS/IFD also supports those connections to a G5 (via GAD29). A shame that the IFDs don't support this capability. |
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Vince
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Gring
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Posted: 01 Feb 2020 at 5:59pm |
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Yes, descent profile and the VS in the user settings are the same thing.
I had a lengthy conversation with Steve L at Avidyne last week about this exact subject. Hopefully it will make a future release. |
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brou0040
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Posted: 05 Feb 2020 at 3:02pm |
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Did Steve imply it was possible to make this work?
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Gring
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Posted: 09 Feb 2020 at 12:44pm |
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anything is possible, right?
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brou0040
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Posted: 09 Feb 2020 at 2:28pm |
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So is going to another navdata vendor... Did he imply it was reasonably possible such that they were looking at implementing it in a relatively near software update?
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Gring
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Posted: 09 Feb 2020 at 5:52pm |
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No.
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LANCE
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Posted: 09 Feb 2020 at 10:30pm |
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I hope not. I have a slow internet connection. Downloading and updating navdata and obstacles for my IFD550 from Jeppesen takes less than a minute. Downloading and updating the microSD cards for my Aspens from Seattle Avionics took 4 hours and 28 minutes last night.
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Phidoug
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Posted: 28 Feb 2020 at 10:13am |
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Comments on this reply I got from an avionics shop in response to my Request for Quote? I currently have an IFD540.
Good morning and thank you for your reply. I can change the Quote to the 7” G3X screen. However, the G3X is not approved for use with Avidyne IFD Navigators and Avidyne hasn’t done any mods to their units/manuals that specifies that it is approved. Frankly, they just got their approval to use G5’s with IFD navigators last fall and it hasn’t gone well. We’ve done two such installs and they both had significant issues with the units talking to each other. Avidynes final solution was slow down the data rate between the two, which is working-but not ideal.
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chflyer
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Posted: 29 Feb 2020 at 12:55pm |
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I have a G5 that was installed last June as an AI, along with a GAD29B and GMU11, connected to my IFD540 (per G5 installation instructions to work with a GNS530). I also have a Sandel SN3500. All are interconnected via Arinc 429 and work just fine. Don't know what issues your shop has had.
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Vince
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GBSoren71965
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Posted: 29 Feb 2020 at 3:45pm |
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I have dual G5's, IFD440, GTX345, PS 450A audio panel and an Stec 50 AP. All works perfectly together! I did have a FastStack wiring harness built for my system when I had the G5 hsi and PS 450A installed, that's the way to go! They know how to get everything "talking" and it saves the shop a bunch of time.
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Chopiman
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Posted: 11 Apr 2020 at 10:56pm |
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Programmer@pcmforles
I have a install that is having problems with the GPS appr not being accurate to minimums. The setup is the same as you have discribed IFD540 dual g5, and gfc 500. What was your arinic 429 set to ? I have a feeling avidynes information may be inadequate. Unless you had no issues I would love to hear how your install went. Thanks.
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Chopiman
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Posted: 14 Apr 2020 at 12:14pm |
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Did you have any problems with lpv approaches in youinstallationi? We are struggling to get our GFC 500 and G5 to talk nice with the ifd to fly to minimums. Believe it has to do with the efis information totheifd i
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programmer@pcmforles
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Posted: 14 Apr 2020 at 2:39pm |
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We did run into a situation where upon the FAF the airplane would veer left of course. It did all the vertical stuff perfectly. The veer was due to the approach mode being set to roll steering as that is how the GNS units do it, on the avidyne you do not want to have roll steering on approach mode.
This is where you will want to disable it. |
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Chopiman
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Posted: 14 Apr 2020 at 2:44pm |
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we did try to disable the gpss appr but lost the ability to turn appr on the GFC 500. How did you over come that. Currently we are adding the spliced 429 input to the ifd as if it was a 3rd party auto pilot using had 42 and efis airdata both.
Any help you can give would be great.
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programmer@pcmforles
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Posted: 14 Apr 2020 at 3:38pm |
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I'll have to check with the customer on the approach mode and see if he lost that as I don't remember him mentioning that.
Yes, I've seen the diagram for splicing the 429 to bypass the GAD unit. I'll have to review my notes on that and see if we had to do that at all. |
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Bob H
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Posted: 15 Apr 2020 at 9:15pm |
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Bob
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Bob H
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Posted: 15 Apr 2020 at 9:16pm |
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Bob
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skitheo
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Posted: 16 Apr 2020 at 12:30am |
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At the FAF, the IFD will switch from GPS track deviation commands to roll steering commands, if Appr Roll Steering is ENABLED. What happened to me was that my autopilot suddenly veered to the right at the FAF on an RNAV GPS LP+V approach. Had to CWS back on to the approach course. Apparently, the A/P needs GPS deviation left/right data all the way down. This only seems to affect digital autopilots, from what I can tell. AviSteve could clarify my misconceptions. EDIT: the above is incorrect: the event described above was apparently due to turbulence experienced at that moment. The A/P needs Appr Roll Steering ENABLED in order to couple in approach mode.
Edited by skitheo - 30 May 2020 at 1:56pm |
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Bob H
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Posted: 19 Apr 2020 at 6:38pm |
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Bob
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compasst
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Posted: 30 May 2020 at 1:38pm |
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Just finished (May 29) updating my Cardinal's dual G5's and IFD 540 to add the GFC 500. Only one issue came up - capturing the VOR CDI by the autopilot. A change to the 429 setting to "GAD 42" solved that capture issue, but now an alert says the (nonexistent) GAD 42 needs servicing. All approaches tested so far work perfectly. Shot an actual to 500' yesterday.
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Gring
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Posted: 24 Jun 2020 at 4:37pm |
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Does anyone has a G5, GFC500, IFD540/440/550 combination that works properly under all conditions (ILS/VOR/RNAV) with no error messages or unique procedures to get around a limitation?
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dmtidler
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Posted: 24 Jun 2020 at 5:43pm |
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+1
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Froethel
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Posted: 24 Jun 2020 at 8:32pm |
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I installed dual G5, GFC500 and a 540 in my C182Q about six months ago and as previously stated, a GAD message appears but it’s of no consequence. Everything has been operating appropriately. Nice system.
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Frank
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Craig767
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Posted: 26 Jun 2020 at 5:12pm |
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Have one G5 with GFC500 and IFD540 installed in November of last year. No operational issues or error messages.
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Bweb99
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Posted: 18 Jul 2020 at 8:47am |
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could you elaborate on what G5/IFD approval your shop was referring to? There is a lot of interest in this subject.
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Bweb99
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Posted: 18 Jul 2020 at 8:49am |
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Approvals?
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chflyer
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Posted: 18 Jul 2020 at 12:31pm |
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That avionics stop statement is a bit lacking in details and while it implies that the problem lay with the IFD, I'm not convinced. I've had a G5 AI installed with my IFD540 for over a year and it worked just fine from the get go. Nothing at all "less than ideal". If I were you, I'd ask them to document the config that didn't work and the one that did.
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Vince
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compasst
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Posted: 19 Jul 2020 at 8:36pm |
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In case you don't lurk all messages on this forum, my Cardinal C177b installation of IFD 540, dual G5, and now GFC 500 all work perfectly in all phases of operation and on all approach configurations. The underspeed function works by audible alert if AP is engaged, and by subtle control input if the AP is not engaged. The GFC 500 will 'assist' with press of LVL button, and with pitch and roll inputs when limits are exceeded unless the GFC's breaker is pulled - in other words, it is always standing by to recover from unusual attitude.
Yes, the GAD message appears and stays in Alerts, but means nothing since I have no GAD 42 installed. Avidyne is working on this spurious message. Similarly, Avidyne is working on enabling VNAV function of GFC 500 coupled with IFD's. Since the 530/430 units don't have VNAV communications, the code of the VNAV data string isn't made public by Garmin, some engineering is needed to figure out how (if) this can be done with IFD where the data is available. Being able to use Go Around for both takeoff pitch and roll control and for actual go around maneuver is particularly nice in a small single-engine aircraft.
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dmtidler
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Posted: 19 Jul 2020 at 9:05pm |
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Thanks for the update. I'm looking to have this same configuration in my airplane soon.
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Shawn26
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Posted: 04 Dec 2020 at 4:29pm |
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I'm in the same process of doing the same upgrade ( G3X touch, G5, GFC500 autopilot, IFD 540 ) and i keep reading many forms that you will not get the full functionally of GFC 500 autopilot with IFD. Apparently there is a issue with the VNAV function and on the GPS approach right after FAF the airplane will deviate one or two dot to the right or left. Unfortunately when i call Avidyne to confirm with the tec support, they cant assist me with this intermigration. Dealers or installers don't know either!
I love the IFD product and is a excellent unit for those who truly fly IFR. But if this is the case I've to change to Garmin 750TXI. I don't know how can we confirm this and who do you need to reach in Avidyne to confirm! We are buying their products but with poor support! Please anyone came across of the same issue please share your thoughts with me. Thank you
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skitheo
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Joined: 02 Jan 2016 Location: KFNL Status: Offline Points: 165 |
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Posted: 04 Dec 2020 at 6:33pm |
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Have you contacted Garmin to find out why their autopilot won't work fully with the IFD540? Have you considered the Dynon suite instead of the Garmin suite? You'll definitely get better integration with the IFD. [Edit:] And you'll likely have better situational awareness and user experience for less money.
Edited by skitheo - 04 Dec 2020 at 6:35pm |
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dmtidler
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Joined: 12 Feb 2016 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 630 |
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Posted: 04 Dec 2020 at 8:35pm |
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Full GFC 500 functionality would certainly be achieved paired with a Garmin GTN 650 or 750. I now have dual G5’s, GFC 500, & IFD540 in my plane. I am very happy with the results; the only nuisance message is a “GAD 42 needs service” message as reported by several forum members with the same setup. As expected, the IFD does not currently send VNAV commands for VNAV climbs or descents. As far as GPS LPV approaches go, my GFC 500 is generally down the centerline. The farthest off centerline I have experienced is lined up with the runway edge lights on a 100’ wide runway inside the FAF...certainly not one or two dots off. I haven’t fully tested the autopilot-off ESP functionality yet; however, it should be identical to the Garmin GNS functionality as neither currently pass AGL info to the G5’s.
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chflyer
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Joined: 24 Jan 2013 Location: LSZK Status: Offline Points: 1054 |
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Posted: 05 Dec 2020 at 7:45am |
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There is no „issue“ with the VNAV function. It is a function of the navigator, not the G5/GFC500. The IFD series is a GNS replacement, with additional functions unique to Avidyne. It is NOT and has never been advertised as fully compatible with GTN functions. The VNAV function is new with the GTN, and is not available with the GNS (and won’t ever be) or IFD (yet). Avidyne might conceivably add it at some time, but have so far announced no plans to do so.
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Vince
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skitheo wrote: